Guests - If You want access to member only forums on FM. You will gain access only when you Sign-in or Sign-Up on Fishing Minnesota.

It's easy - LOOK UPPER right menu.

  • Announcements

    • Rick

      Members Only Fluid Forum View   08/08/2017

      Fluid forum view allows members only to get right to the meat of this community; the topics. You can toggle between your preferred forum view just below to the left on the main forum entrance. You will see three icons. Try them out and see what you prefer.   Fluid view allows you, if you are a signed up member, to see the newest topic posts in either all forums (select none or all) or in just your favorite forums (select the ones you want to see when you come to Fishing Minnesota). It keeps and in real time with respect to Topic posts and lets YOU SELECT YOUR FAVORITE FORUMS. It can make things fun and easy. This is especially true for less experienced visitors raised on social media. If you, as a members want more specific topics, you can even select a single forum to view. Let us take a look at fluid view in action. We will then break it down and explain how it works in more detail.   The video shows the topic list and the forum filter box. As you can see, it is easy to change the topic list by changing the selected forums. This view replaces the traditional list of categories and forums.   Of course, members only can change the view to better suit your way of browsing.   You will notice a “grid” option. We have moved the grid forum theme setting into the main forum settings. This makes it an option for members only to choose. This screenshot also shows the removal of the forum breadcrumb in fluid view mode. Fluid view remembers your last forum selection so you don’t lose your place when you go back to the listing. The benefit of this feature is easy to see. It removes a potential barrier of entry for members only. It puts the spotlight on topics themselves, and not the hierarchical forum structure. You as a member will enjoy viewing many forums at once and switching between them without leaving the page. We hope that fluid view, the new functionality is an asset that you enjoy .
Sign in to follow this  
Jeremiah Johnson

30.06 Rounds

Recommended Posts

Jeremiah Johnson

I currently shoot 165gr Rem. core lokt out of my semi-auto. Anyone recommend a flatter shooting round for a little bit longer of a range? It seems like the 165s drop pretty quick after 100yds...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
remington 300

I also shoot 165 gr.in my -06, i use the federal vital shock 165gr seirra gamekings btsp. i found these have the best ballistics for what i was using them for.

how far you planning on shooting?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
remington 300

Jeremiah,

Ialso just bought some remington rounds 30-06 accutip 165 grain boattails, heres the #s

short range trajectory 100 yrds +.8", 150 yrds 0", 200 -2.1"

250 yrds _5.9".

long range +1.8" @100yrds, 0 @ 200, -7.9"@300.

The energy and velocity is slightly better than the core-loct,trajectory not much difference, accutip is 1" better at 300 yrds. check for yourself

hope this helps,

mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jeremiah Johnson

thanks guys; I might have to switch to the accutips. I shot a buck last year perfectly at about 60yds, but when i tried shooting a doe later on in the season, about 125yds, she shot really low.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AF-1984

Any specific reason for using 165 gr.? I use 150 gr. Federals. out of my 30.06. I don't worry about much drop until around 175 - 200 yds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jeremiah Johnson

I dont know, the 165s are the 1st rounds i started to shoot, so i stuck with them, but I'm thinking of going to the 150s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
echotrail

I've used the 150 gr. remmington shells in my 30.06 for many years with no complaints. However I cannot remember when I've needed to take a shot over 150 yards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
remington 300

Theres really not much difference between 165 and 150 grain rounds as far as far as velocity and trajectory go the difference is in energy, the heavier the bullet the more energy.

It all depends on what your looking for.

good luck &

shoot straight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Huskiedevle

Several years ago after buying my Tikka in 30.06, I patterned several different loads, and the winner was Hornady Light Magnums in 165 gr.Those sierra boattails have worked great for me the last few years. I did try Remington, Federal, and Winchester as well.The gun will tell you what it likes. Pattern it with several different brands, and bullet weights. It costs a bit to do so, but what is it worth to you?Maybe blowing the shot of a lifetime at a trophy buck, because you had the wrong load for your gun, or could have used a better load for your gun. I am not knocking any one persons choice of cartridge/bullet on this thread, but I know what works in my gun.That is all that matters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PerchJerker

General rule of thumb is that 165 gr bullets should be the best shooters in a .30-06, although 150 grs shoot plenty good out of them too in most guns. I prefer 165 over 150 for more energy. I usually shoot Winchester ballistic tip or Feberal sierra boattails out of my Browning.

With a .30-06, if you sight it 1.5 - 2 inches high at 100 yards you should be able to hold dead-on any deer out to almost 200 yards. Then you don't need to worry about bullet trajectory until you get out to 200 yards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jeremiah Johnson

thanks for the info guys!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Muddog

Take it to the range, shoot as many different 165's as you can. Let your rifle tell you what IT likes. Shoot that kind. Throw in some 150's it may like them better. If you can't hit somthing with a good shooting 175 that you can with a 165, well I don't think it is the gun or the round!

My tip would be, Get a bolt gun. Say; in 7mm-08.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ray Mysterio

My brother is a sales manager for Federal and knows more than most about ballistics. He has taught me everything that he knows about balistics.

First off, do not concern yourself solely with the drop of a bullet. Target shooters who shoot 30-06 use 165 or 180 gr. out to 1,000 yards. The key is just knowing how much your bullet drops and adjusting accordiingly.

The main thing for whitetail hunting is finding a bullet that has integrity and is designed for whitetail.

Here is a list of good rounds that I have used:

165 gr. Sierra game king btsp

165 gr. Fusion soft point

165 gr. Nosler partition

165 gr. Barnes triple shock

My 2 cents... the Remington load mentioned in the first post might not be the best round for what you are wanting to do with it.

Of course I am bias.

Mysterio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BobT

It's important to understand the bullet type and what it is designed for. I previously used Winchester silver tip bullets and found that too often they didn't appear to mushroom on impact if I didn't hit something fairly solid. Turns out these are more useful at longer range than the <50 yds one encounters in northern MN. I now use 150gr nosler partition with much better result.

Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Insp Gadget

What a bullet will do when it gets there is important yes. but having one you can poke a hole with every time is more important. All the pros will tell you to try many different loads and find the one that flys best from your particular gun. What works in my Rem 7400 is not necessarily the best in your 700, or savage, or whatever. I found that I can shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards with Fedreal premium 165 sierra boattail soft point. Plus I know that the boat tail does no good until 150 plus yards. (engineer from federal told me that) What the round does when it gets there is less important than if it's in the boileroom or not. no matter what it does when it hits the a$$ I'd rather know that every time it's in a 3 inch circle behind the shoulder. If you can do that, up to 250 or whatever range you likely will shoot....in MN its likely less than 150.... pretty much any hunk of lead between 125 and 225 grains will do the job. I'm thinking of trying some of the newer 165 loads that are cheaper than the premiums cause they are getting up there!

my 2cents.

smile.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Muddog

Yea. What Insp Gadget said. grin.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ray Mysterio

I agree that a 3 in. group is critical. But, when you are sighting in, your on a shooting bench with a solid rest.

Now, when out deer hunting in a stand with the wind blowing and no solid rest, what happens when your shot is 3" to far forward into the shoulder? Thats when the right bullet comes into play. If your bullet doesn't perform when hitting bone then you might end up loosing a deer.

You are right that a sierra gameking btsp shines past 150 yds. I am leary of using that bullet fo myself where I hunt because I don't shoot out past 100 yds.

My 2 cents...

Mysterio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Muddog

Well if his auto loader can only throw 3" groop at 100yards what would be the logic in having a bullet that would hit dead on at 300yds with a 3.5" hold over at 100yards? No one who knows how to shoot would try to shoot somthing at over 100yds with out a good rest. Any one can aim at somthing 300yard away, few can hit it 10 out of 10 times. That is knowing how to shoot!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
monstermoose78

I use big bullets 180 grain nosler partitions. I know they are made for large game but I use my gun to hunt moose and elk as well so it makes sense to only buy one kind of bullet other wise i would be at the range for weeks at a time and to think of the cost with each box now pushing 30-35 bucks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Insp Gadget

Agreed that one should not be thinking about long range shots without a rest. I also beleive that if you have a situation where you might have a long range opportunity, you should practice for it. The longest shot I've had was 165yards, but, the shack over looks a public slew that has some trails at about 250 from the deck. grin.gif I did partice that last Thursday and am happy to say I put 5 shots inside 3 inches FROM A GOOD REST! I won't hesitate to take that shot notwithstanding a howling wind,if something walks out there. (and I'm on the deck and not in the woods.....?)

No matter what the gun or round, you need to practice to shoot well. (my opinion) And you should go to the trouble of practicing at all possible ranges that you shoot. My brother has the same gun as me and shoots the same shells. He hunts Wyoming with a rancher friend of his and for years got static about not shooting a bolt. "Ya city slickers need the auto to throw a bunch a lead cuz ya can't knockit down with one!" he eventually bought a bolt so his son could hunt with him. The rancher took him Elk hunting and my bro dropped 2 elk at 200yds with the auto loader and the 165 btsp. (2 shots)After that, that rancher told him to leave the bolt in the truck. It was more important to hit what you aimed at than anything else. Not braggin, just saying that if you hit the right spot everytime.......it works out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
love to hunt

Jeremiah Johnson

You arn't going to get a much flatter shooting bullet for that caliber. The 165 gr is about the best trajectory you are going to find in a hunting round.

I went to my Honrnady reloading manual and found the data for the 4 most commom bullet weights you can buy over the counter. Now keep in mind, to be fair I used the maximum velocity for each round, and the same type of boat tail soft point. Not to mention the Hornady BTSP is going to much differently then the nosler, fail safe or any other round for the matter.

Also there is no way your factory loaded ammo is going to perform like this but it should show you the differences in weights.

Also remember the heavier the bullet typically the lower the velocity, but velocity is not everything, the 165 gr outperforms the 150 gr in down range energy and trajectory but is slower at the muzzle.

This data actually shows the 165 gr beating everything in trajectory and down range energy.

It also shows that the difference between the rounds is so little it is hardly worth mentioning as far as actual trajectory. Really who out there can tell the difference of .2" at 200 yards? I surely can't.

In addition it shows that anything over 300 yards is futile and should be left on the range. A 30" drop is very dificult to judge and takes years of training. If a guy tells me he made a 200 yard shot I would say "Nice shot", if he says he made a 300+ yard shot I would say he got lucky.

Here is my sugestion. If the 165gr shoots good for you, run with it. Sight in 2" high at 100 yards and that will be like a 200 yard zero with most standard factory ammo.

Also if your groups arn't under 3" at 100 yards maybe you should try another bullet. They all shoot differently and just maybe 150 gr Winchester supremes will punch a 1" group for you or perhaps 150 gr Core-Lokt will punch 1 ragged hole.

I only say this because what ever your group is at 100 will double at 200 and triple at 300. A 3" group at 100 will translate to a 6" at 200 and that could be a miss.

My humble opinion.

Here is the data:

30-06Balistics.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jeremiah Johnson

thanks for the info love to hunt; Its probably just the type of round, right now im using the rem. corelokt, so I'll be able to check up on it agian this Thursday and maybe try a diff. brand.

-thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Muddog

I don't know if those stats are right. But they look close enoph. I don't know about you but 2800 fps is a vary good muzzle velocity.

Look at it again it shows the M,V of the 165 at 2872 and the 150 at 2801 ( I don't think that is right ). A 165 starting at a faster speed then a 150 would fly flater then 150. shocked.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
love to hunt

Those #'s are the energy not velocity.

I see the picture is gone, I will reload it when I get home tonight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
monstermoose78

if you sight in at 200 yards with a 30-06 the drop should only be about 7+- inchs at 300 so for a 300 yard shot. after 300 things become a long shot 400 yards i drop about5 27+- inches that is to much to try to judge plus wind drift. Not a good killing shot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  



  • Posts

    • Rick
      State wildlife chief addresses upcoming season and future challenges By Paul Telander, DNR wildlife chief When Minnesota’s deer season ends Sunday, Dec. 31, it is quite likely the harvest will be in the 200,000 range.  This Minnesota Department of Natural Resources projection is above last year’s harvest of 173,213, below the 2003 record harvest of 290,525 and similar to the most recent 20-year average of 205,959. Prior to 2000, deer harvests in excess of 200,000 occurred only four times. Deer harvest totals typically relate to the size of the deer population and to a lesser degree to weather conditions immediately before and during the hunting season. On the 2017 season
      This should be a good deer season barring any unforeseen unusual weather. Deer numbers are up following three years of conservative harvest regulations designed to rebuild the population, coupled with three relatively mild winters. As a result, more antlerless permits are available this year, and hunters in many parts of the state will have additional opportunities to harvest more deer because of other more liberal season framework changes. Unfavorable weather, like heavy snowfall immediately before or during the hunting season, is the main factor that would prevent a harvest increase. On putting 2017 in context
      The highest deer harvests occurred during the early to mid-1990s and from 2000-2008. During this latter period, the harvest topped 200,000 each year. The high harvests in the early 2000s occurred at a time when the over-riding harvest strategy was to reduce the deer population so it wouldn’t grow out of control, as had happened in certain eastern states, and to address certain environmental, economic and social concerns. Deer harvests in excess of 225,000 occurred only once in the 1990s. Going further back, the harvests in the 1970s never topped 100,000. The harvests in the 1980s were under 150,000. Today, there’s growing discussion in the hunting community as to what’s a reasonable harvest target, and that’s a good conversation to have. On managing toward population goals
      Our aim is to keep deer numbers at population goals identified during DNR’s periodically occurring public goal-setting processes. There are 130 different deer permit areas throughout the state, and nearly all permit areas have a numeric population goal range. Population goals range from as low as a handful of deer per square mile in intensively farmed areas to 20 to 25 deer per square mile in prime forested areas. A few permit areas are too small or have too low of a harvest to model the local population. Deer numbers are at or have exceeded population goals over most of the state. Some northeast and southwest permit areas are slightly below goal. Parts of central Minnesota and southeastern Minnesota are above goal. From an overall, statewide perspective, we’re not far from where we believe Minnesota should be. On DNR transparency
      Many hunters are curious as to how we make our decisions on antlerless permit numbers and season structure, and that’s something we are trying to more effectively communicate. The process starts immediately after the deer season closes. That’s when area wildlife supervisors and staff monitor deer harvest results in their local areas and collect informal feedback from hunters, conservation officers, foresters and others. In spring, after winter severity has been monitored and deer mortality losses have been estimated, research staff run population models for each permit area based on the last year’s harvest, winter mortality, anticipated fawn births, predation and other data. These calculations are the basis of research staff recommendations for season permit area designations (lottery, managed, intensive harvest, etc.) and the number of antlerless permits that should be made available to hunters in each lottery permit area in order to achieve population goals. Research staff recommendations are sent to all area wildlife supervisors, who then have the option of agreeing with them or modifying them based on their own local observations and informal input. Often, these recommendations agree with each other, but not always. When this happens, differences get resolved at the regional or St. Paul office level. Ultimately, the agreed upon season structures and number of permits to be issued for each area are communicated to hunters through the multi-colored deer map that is part of the hunting regulations booklet and a new, more informative interactive deer map on the DNR website at mndnr.gov/deermap. On managing expectations
      That’s perhaps the hardest part of deer management, and it’s often a function of scope and scale. Our agency’s focus is on the big picture and a half million hunters. Conversely, the individual hunter is most interested in what’s happening within their immediate hunting area, which is often as little as 40 acres. It’s not well-known but among 13 Midwestern states, only Missouri manages deer populations at a finer spatial scale than Minnesota. We are serious about managing expectations and deer numbers in small geographic areas. Still, it is common to have a wide variety of opinions in each area on whether there should be more, fewer or different sized deer. To that point, we recently conducted a hunter satisfaction survey and one of the findings is that today’s hunters have higher expectations than those who hunted just 10 years ago. On communicating with hunters
      When I began my career it was common to interact with hunters at deer registration stations and local field offices. Today with the ease, convenience and popularity of phone and internet game registration, the DNR no longer has staff at deer registration stations. And people don’t visit DNR offices like they once did because so much information is available on the DNR website. Our challenge is finding new and efficient ways to have two-way conversations with hunters. This past winter we received more than 1,400 comments during a three-month long deer management plan public input effort. We were pleased with the response yet those 1,400 comments from an engaged and important audience represent only a minute fraction of the hunting public. There’s an irony in the fact that even though it is easier to be connected to one another these days because of smartphones and other technology, many people feel less connected than they once did. Figuring out how to maintain strong relations with hunters and other stakeholders is something on which we need to keep working. Minnesota’s first-ever deer plan will outline key concepts and crucial, ongoing work needed to manage deer, one of the state’s most popular and economically vibrant natural resources. An important aspect of the plan is how DNR will reach out and communicate deer management needs, necessary actions and reasons for those actions. A draft plan will be available in early 2018. I encourage everyone to read the draft plan, consider DNR’s suggested approach and give us your feedback and ideas through the public input opportunities we’ll make available. Discuss below - to view set the hook here.
    • Rick
      Hunters looking forward to higher deer numbers this season Hunters will have additional opportunities to harvest deer this season thanks to a series of mild winters and conservative hunting regulations, which have resulted in rebounding deer populations across Minnesota.  Firearms deer season opens Saturday, Nov. 4, and there are 130 permit areas in 2017. Information about each permit area can be found on the DNR’s interactive deer map at mndnr.gov/deermap, and includes wildlife manager reports, regulations, and statistics about deer harvest and populations on a local scale. Northwest deer report
      John Williams, northwest region wildlife manager More deer on the landscape in the northwest region should help hunters better enjoy the season and have good prospects for a successful hunt. Another mild winter on top of the previous two mild winters has largely enabled deer populations to be at or near goal levels in most permit areas. Fawn production was also good this year; another indication of does coming through the winter in good health. Recent rains have filled basins that were previously dry due to drought-like conditions in late summer, and water levels are up on many of the marshes and lakes in the region. Hunters should be prepared to deal with wetter than average conditions if they are hunting in or need to cross lowland areas. In general, hunters will be able to harvest more deer. In several permit areas the designations changed to allow more overall harvest. Some permit areas moved from a designation of lottery, which requires hunters to apply in advance to shoot an antlerless deer, to a hunters choice designation that allows a hunter to use one license to shoot either a buck or antlerless deer. Other permit areas changed designations from hunters choice to managed. In permit areas designated as managed, hunters can harvest two deer through use of a regular license and a bonus antlerless permit. Permit areas that did stay in the lottery designation this year may have more permits available than in previous years. Northeast deer report
      Dave Olfelt, northeast region wildlife manager Three consecutive, relatively mild winters have contributed to good fawn production and high numbers of twin births. Snow depth was moderate throughout much of the region and a relatively early green-up of forage has supported deer that appear to be in excellent physical condition. Where good habitat exists, deer populations are approaching or are at established population goals. While deer are not evenly distributed within permit areas because of habitat differences and varying levels of hunting pressure, harvest regulations have relaxed in many northern Minnesota permit areas to allow more deer harvest. Duluth, several Iron Range cities and some state parks continue to hold special hunts to reduce deer numbers. Rain and wet conditions have persisted throughout much of the fall season. Hunters may find water in areas that are typically dry this time of year and forest road access may be difficult or impassable in some locations. Hunters in far northeastern Minnesota’s primary moose range should review the new deer permit area maps for boundary and numbering changes. Central deer report
      Jami Markle, assistant central region wildlife manager “Deer are everywhere” is a common refrain across the central region this fall. Deer populations seem to have bounced back from a decline following the severe winter of 2013-2014. In fact, many deer permit areas in the region have met or are above population goals, meaning more permits will be available this fall. With rebounding deer populations and ample hunter opportunities, wildlife managers are anticipating a strong harvest in 2017. Deer look healthy as they shed their reddish summer coats for the more muted gray-brown tones that will carry them through the winter. Summer habitat conditions were ideal with an excellent growing season and plentiful native forage and cover. Does with twin fawns seem to be the norm rather than the exception this year. Wildlife managers and landowners have noted an abundant acorn crop in the central and southeast portion of the region this fall which will keep deer feeding and browsing in the oak woods. Wet conditions in late September and early October have postponed agricultural harvest so hunters may see standing crops well into the firearms season. Fall leaf drop is reported to be later than normal in the southern part of the state, but by early November sightlines should be opened up and the forest floor will have a new layer of fallen leaves. Buck scrapes and rubs are starting to appear and hunters can expect to see deer movement and patterns change as the rut approaches. Many permit areas in the central region are designated as managed this year, allowing harvest of two deer through the use of a regular license and a bonus antlerless permit. Five permit areas are designated as intensive, which allows for harvest of three deer using additional bonus permits. There are additional harvest opportunities in the 601 metro deer management area and the 603 chronic wasting disease management zone, both of which offer harvest of an unlimited number of antlerless deer. Southwest deer report 
      David Trauba, southwest region wildlife manager Two consecutive mild winters coupled with past conservative harvest strategies have allowed deer numbers to increase throughout southwestern Minnesota. In addition, wildlife managers reported good fawn production. As a result, more antlerless permits were provided for this fall’s hunting season. However, permits numbers continue to be low in select permit areas, mostly in extreme southwest, due to the loss of Conservation Reserve Program acres. Managers in these permit areas are having a difficult time increasing deer numbers due to limited habitat availability. Conversely, hunters need to be aware that permit areas 281 and 290 moved to a hunters choice designation for the first time due to an abundance of deer along the Minnesota River corridor. Two wild cards for hunters will be the amount of standing crops and river flooding. Historically the amount of standing crops drives opening weekend hunter harvest along with weather conditions. Large rainfall amounts in mid-October have resulted in flooded fields and river flooding. Crop harvest is behind schedule but this can change very quickly so it is too early to predict what amount of crops will be in the field, if any, before opening day. However, hunters should prepare for high water in select river corridors; the high water can influence deer use of these habitats. Many deer have been forced out of the river valleys into the surrounding uplands. As always, hunters need to scout and adapt to conditions. Discuss below - to view set the hook here.
    • muskie-mike
      Caught an 18 inch walleye on a crank bait and a 48" muskie grabbed it..Got it up to the boat a few times but rolled and cut my line,the walleye was dead and I had it for supper...got 2 muskies on walleyes,1 on sunfish and 1 on a crappie..
    • Toasty
      Still for sale?
    • gimruis
      I would avoid them if I were you.  All season.  There's often at least some current flowing through there and with these warmer winters, its just a bad idea.
    • gimruis
      If your getting some pretty close shooting (and gauging by your photos you are in those setups), you might want to use an IC (improved cylinder) choke instead.  Spread that pattern out a little more and switch to some smaller shot size with more velocity, especially if you're mostly just shooting as small ducks like woodies. I almost exclusively use an IC until the calendar turns November, for ducks, pheasants, and grouse.  Later on when you get more shooting at bigger, smarter birds that are on the edge of range you could go back to a modified.
    • Sunset Lodge
      Hello from the NW Angle!   Water temps are hovering around 48 degrees and fall fishing is phenomenal! Walleyes are biting anywhere from 14 to 30ft with jigging being the most effective method. Crappies are continuing to bite around sunken trees and deep holes with a good amount of perch mixed in. Anglers have had success trolling for large pike and muskies with jigging also bringing some to the boat.    We are getting fish houses ready for the 2017-18 ice fishing season and are very excited for hard water!   We recommending checking availability for winter ASAP!   Sunset Lodge
    • fishingdad
      Thank you for the responses everyone. You are correct Del I do not have the Fiber option.  We do use the Hot spot from AT&T at times but to be honest the Data does not last all that long, Even though we are right by Moccasin point & the tower is at the end of Frazer our signal is not the best at times.  We could also do DSL but according to one neighbor we may be faster sending up carrier pigeons & waiting for a response.
    • gunner55
      It's been a 1/32 oz. unpainted jig head & a small split shot along with a crappie minnow for me most of the time. Still barely see the rod tip load or wiggle a little on the bite. Even tougher with the wind lately & 20' or more down.
    • h8go4s
      Any channel on any lake is dangerous.