Guests - If You want access to member only forums on FM. You will gain access only when you Sign-in or Sign-Up on Fishing Minnesota.

It's easy - LOOK UPPER right menu.

  • Announcements

    • Rick

      Members Only Fluid Forum View   08/08/2017

      Fluid forum view allows members only to get right to the meat of this community; the topics. You can toggle between your preferred forum view just below to the left on the main forum entrance. You will see three icons. Try them out and see what you prefer.   Fluid view allows you, if you are a signed up member, to see the newest topic posts in either all forums (select none or all) or in just your favorite forums (select the ones you want to see when you come to Fishing Minnesota). It keeps and in real time with respect to Topic posts and lets YOU SELECT YOUR FAVORITE FORUMS. It can make things fun and easy. This is especially true for less experienced visitors raised on social media. If you, as a members want more specific topics, you can even select a single forum to view. Let us take a look at fluid view in action. We will then break it down and explain how it works in more detail.   The video shows the topic list and the forum filter box. As you can see, it is easy to change the topic list by changing the selected forums. This view replaces the traditional list of categories and forums.   Of course, members only can change the view to better suit your way of browsing.   You will notice a “grid” option. We have moved the grid forum theme setting into the main forum settings. This makes it an option for members only to choose. This screenshot also shows the removal of the forum breadcrumb in fluid view mode. Fluid view remembers your last forum selection so you don’t lose your place when you go back to the listing. The benefit of this feature is easy to see. It removes a potential barrier of entry for members only. It puts the spotlight on topics themselves, and not the hierarchical forum structure. You as a member will enjoy viewing many forums at once and switching between them without leaving the page. We hope that fluid view, the new functionality is an asset that you enjoy .
Sign in to follow this  
RAJ

Lab won't pick up birds...

Recommended Posts

RAJ    0
RAJ

I got a problem...

I have a 2 year old lab and I just took him duck hunting for the first time. He's been pheasant hunting and does good getting birds up, but I haven't shot one yet.

Well, I shot a few ducks last weekend and he won't pick the ducks up!! He minds great and will start to retrieve, but just shiffs the birds. Last year I clipped wings and used them for training and he went nuts.

Any suggestions on what to do?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
setterguy    0
setterguy

Force fetch is the only way to consistently get a dog to retrieve. Right now your dog is making a decision not to retrieve that bird. Force Fetching takes the decision making process and gives it to you, not the dog. Good luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ufatz    0
Ufatz

Patience. Shoot another duck and then work with the dog, using that duck for a while. Save the wings, as you did before. Get him all wound up and excited. Keep at it. I'll bet he comes around. The light bulb will go off in the big hard head and then he'll be ready to GO every morning!! In a lot of years and quite a few Labs I've never had to force one to pick up a dead bird or to go in the water eagerly. Maybe I've just always had good dogs to start with or just been lucky.

Patience. Outlast that rascal and show him who's smarter!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RAJ    0
RAJ

Thanks for the info. I'm sure he'll come around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BLACKJACK    3
BLACKJACK

As Ufatz said, if hes excited about wings, then he'll get excited about birds, he just hasn't been exposed to them. Force fetch is an option, but at this point you want to hunt with him, so get him excited, throw the dummy with wings on it, then throw a dead bird, make it easy the first time, get him excited and really praise him when he brings it back. Maybe even save that next duck you shoot, keep it in the frig and have a few training sessions. If he likes the wings, he'll come around. You really need to work hard on this so that when you drop a duck or pheasant in the grass and he finds it, you may be out of sight, you want him to bring it to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
magnum165    0
magnum165

RAJ,I HAVE A 3 1/2 YEAR OLD LAB THAT I GOT ABOUT A MONTH AGO AND I HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM.YESTERDAY,WE SHOT A BIG DRAKE MALLARD AND SHE GOT REALLY FIRED UP AND WANTED TO GO,SO I SENT HER AND SHE SWAM OUT AND SNIFFED THE BIRD AND CAME BACK.THIS IS A BIG IMPROVEMENT FROM EARLIER ATTEMPS AND I BELIEVE SHE WILL ALSO COME ALONG IN TIME.I HAVE DONE ALL THE THINGS LIKE HER RETRIEVING WINGS,DUMMY WITH WINGS.WHOLE BIRD IN BACK YARD.IT SEEMS BEST TO GET THEM VERY FIRED UP AND THEY WILL DO IT.LIKE YOU SAY SHE WORKS GREAT ON DUMMIES AND IS VERY WELL BEHAVED AND SEEMS PROUD TO BRING BIRDS BACK IN YARD.I THINK MY PROBLEM IS THE PREVIOUS OWNER HAD CHICKENS AND DIDN'T WANT HER TO TOUCH THEM.THEY JUST NEED TO LEARN THAT ITS OK TO FETCH GAME AND THAT IS WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPY.LABS ALWAYS ARE WILLING TO PLEASE!!!GOOD LUCK AND KEEP ON TRYING.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
verg    0
verg

I'm training a 7 month old lab now as well. Have duck hunted him a few times. He retrieves on water but is shakey on land. I took a one of the ducks i shot and used it in the yard. I have one of those dokken duck dummies (any dummy may work) and threw it 5-6 times in a row. He loves to retrieve. Then, the 5th time-when he brought it back i switched it with a real duck behind my back and threw that. He took off after it. When he got there, he sniffed it for a minute. I kept coaxing him-he finally picked it up and brought it. I do this often to get him used to it. It's not perfect but he's gets better all the time. Experience is the key. Make training and hunting fun for the dog and make sure he knows what is expected and what you want. He'll come along in time. It may take a season or two but he'll make you happy if you keep working him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 DA GILLS    0
2 DA GILLS

My dog would not touch a duck last season (10 months old). Completed the force fetch training this summer and he retrieved every duck this past weekend. He sniffed the first few, but a firm "fetch" command and he grab them and returned to the boat. It makes all the difference in the world. Some dogs come around on their own, but teaching fetch as command makes a huge difference. It is not an option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gundy89    0
gundy89

My lab is a year and a half now and got out duck hunting for the first time last weekend. Had her pheasant hunting last year and she did really well getting birds up and finding dropped birds, but didn't want to pick them up. I just kept working the retrieving, which she loves. This weekend. She retrieved every bird in the water and all of them that fell on land. We shot 14 birds in two days. I haven't forced fetched yet. I worked a lot this summer with wings tied onto a dummy and had a frozen pheasant that I worked retrieves with. At first, she didn't want to pick it up, but eventually, she came around. Hope it helps a little. It's my first dog, but we've spent a ton of time together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JPowell    0
JPowell

force fetch is the best thing. he might not like it...but he knows he needs to pick it up and bring it back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KOTTKE    0
KOTTKE

I don't think any lab should be forced, its in there blood to please you, I think that maybe people need to work with there dogs thruout the season, rather than the weekend befor opener. I've had labs as young as 5 months retrieve ducks, granted not the best retieve but she swam out on her own and brought that green head back to me.I don't know who was more excited her or me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
IRISHSOBNO4    0
IRISHSOBNO4

i had to do the same thing with my lab that ufatz suggested

i lost my duck dog this year and have to use my pointing lab that has never duck hunted, it worked in a few minuts of throwing the duck out into the pond. now i have to get her to settle down in the blind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Blaze    0
Blaze

I can't believe what I'm reading here. confused.gif Amen to seabass, gills, and setterguy. The ONLY option to make sure your dog retrieves 99%+ is to FF the dog.

I'm sure the next 30 replies will all be about how "I didn't have to FF my dog because he's a natural retriever and blah blah blah" or "force fetching a dog is cruel and unncessary and blah blah blah". Truth is, when done CORRECTLY, force fetch will bond you and your dog closer than ever and the expectations are set that no matter what you tell the dog to pick up, he will do it and do it NOW. You owe it to the game which you are hunting to make sure your dog is a reliable retriever. Next time you drop 2-3 late season mallards in 30-something degree weather and your "natural" retrieveer decides the water's a tad too cold, YOU become the retriever. If your dog is properly FF'd, he won't think twice and will do the job cuz he know the routine.

There - done venting. smirk.gif

RAJ - there are a ton of resources online teaching how to FF. Google force fetch and start reading. Take it slow and really learn your dog - at 2 yrs old, he's definitely old enough to be trained and can handle the program. If you have questions, ask 'em here. There are some good dog folks on this board and a few others. Good luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SportFishin'    1
SportFishin'

I'm with Blaze,Setter Guy, & others.

Force Fetch training will help you to "Conserve game." By using a well trained reliable hunting dog after the shot.

Just my .02

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BLACKJACK    3
BLACKJACK

Quote:

You owe it to the game which you are hunting to make sure your dog is a reliable retriever.


Ahhhhh, the old debate, to force or not to force.

I have to say that I take offense at your remark above, you make it sound like people are unethical and lose game if they don't hunt with a 'forced' dog. I'm on my fourth Lab and none of them have been forced and over the last 25 years I'll bet that I average less than 2 lost birds a year - and I've hunted and shot a LOT of pheasants and a few ducks over that time.

I think what you're seeing in the above examples are guys that haven't spent enough time in the preseason working with their dogs, they haven't exposed them to birds BEFORE they go hunting. Hopefully they've learned their lessons and the next pup will be better trained BEFORE the season.

My young lab is three and I still keep some pigeons in a cage to tune her up now and then. You can't expect Rover to lay on the couch and fetch a few dummies and then hit the duck blind and be a top notch retriever.

As far as the force fetch training, if a guy hasn't spent the time introducing their dogs to birds before season, then they should leave the force fetching to a pro, because it is a nasty bit of business. And who wants to lose their dog to a trainer now? Work with some dead birds, get some enthusiasm up, get them to retrieve, and then get them forced in the off season, if thats what they need/you desire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
browndog    0
browndog

Force Fetch, Force Back, Force right over, and Force left over. The dog will love you for it in the end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JDM    0
JDM

Force fetch is SOOOO critical. It sets up all of the next phases in training. I always make sure I spend extra time on the "hold" to help eliminate the dropped birds.

For you natural guys, more power to you, but at some point, with a majority of non-forced dogs, you will have problems. With dogs, everyones standards are different. One guys "great" dog wouldn't last a week in another guy's kennel. I think the whole point of the original question was to get help with his issue and the best way to do that is force fetch, which would be a great winter training excercise for him. If I were him, I would start the hold today. Get that in and he could be forced pretty quickly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
verg    0
verg

Im with blackjack. I don't disagree totally with FF. It can be great. I disagree with the statement about making you and your dog closer. Maybe you closer but it is not the most gentle thing for dogs. Don't care what anyone says--i've done it. Blackjack is right, i into'd my 2yr old lab to birds very early. Never had a problem. My current 7th mon old i didn't due to having new son etc etc. He is coming along much slower. But he will be there as long as i keep getting birds to him. Again, FF isn't all bad, but i bet 99% of dogs wouldn't need it if they were into'd to birds often as young pups.

just my opinion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 DA GILLS    0
2 DA GILLS

My griffon was introduced to birds at a young age and did not want to pick up and hold birds. The birds he did pick up, he crushed with his mouth. He has been FF trained and all is good so far this season and during training efforts. The nice thing about FF training is that when I send him, he searches until he finds the bumper or bird.

With the natural method, do guys teach hold. Not only do they need to pick it up, but they need to hold it until given the command to release. A live bird dropped 3 feet from you is no good either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gundy89    0
gundy89

I'm not against force fetching. I'd love to have my dog go through it, however, this is my first dog and I don't have the money to send them to a pro yet. I really don't trust myself to do it, so I do what you call the natural method. However, I spend a ton of time with her. She doesn't sit on the couch until the weekends. We work at least once a day, even if it's only a couple minutes. When I can afford the pro, she'll definitely go. And don't come back saying that I don't deserve a dog or shouldn't hunt because I haven't FFed her! That's absurd, your basically saying that if I don't do everything by the book, then I shouldn't even be able to hunt. I totally respect the game I'm chasing. I shot 10 pheasants over my dog last year who was only 7-8 mos old and didn't lose 1! She wasn't forced and maybe she didn't retrieve the bird, but she found them and I went over to pick them up. I'm not to lazy to help out with a retrieve. That's how it's done when you don't even have a dog. We lost 1 bird last weekend (it dove on her), but she also found 2 that I would never have had without a dog. She retreived everyone to my hand last weekend. I'm (Contact Us Please) proud of her!! She has a great drive, nose, and loves to retrieve. If I'm shooting birds in 30 degree weather and she won't go, then I will. Again, I'm not to proud to help with the work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
verg    0
verg

well you guys may not like this but...if you give a dog time, like 2 maybe 3 seasons of lots of hunting experience-i bet they do well. They will find a bird, pick it up and bring it back. Experience is everything in my book. And--the part you won't like--a trainer told me that FF is "evil" but sometimes necessary. He said that lots of the dogs that need to be force fetched come from poor lines. Dogs that don't need it come from better natural lines. Don't blast me..that is what he said. But, could be true??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BLACKJACK    3
BLACKJACK

gundy, I agree with you on getting out and helping them find the birds, get them in the area so their nose can do the work.

I would advice you to NOT to pick up the birds when she finds them, make her pick them up and bring them to you. Sooner or later you'll get into a heavy cover situation where you don't even see her, you want her to realize that when she finds that bird that her duty is to bring it to you, thats when she gets her praise.

A bird dropped in the open where you know where it is and she doesn't is a great training opportunity, tell her to hunt it up, and when she brings it, give her lots of praise. Coach your hunting partners not to rush right over and pick up that easy bird, use it for a training session, and its a reward for the dogs, getting feathers in their mouth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gissert    17
Gissert

Blakcjack is right on the money, at least from what I see with my dog.

I have a three year old female lab. She is crazy to fetch, and loves to please. She will fetch bumpers or Dokken dummies until my arm is sore.

Put feathers in the mix, and she does not like to pick it up, I have put wings on some bumpers, and she will grab the portion that has no feathers on it.

I have failed my dog because I did not get her exposed to fetching birds or feathers sooner.

I am going to have to go the force fetch method. I owe it to her and my self to get past this hurdle. She has tons of drive, great boat manners, and often pickes up birds in flight before I do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 DA GILLS    0
2 DA GILLS

gundy89,

This is my first dog as well and I was fortunate that the breeder I purchased my dog from helped with the majority of the FF training. I too did not trust myself to do it correctly. I realized with my particular dog that if I wanted a reliable retriever, I needed to go the FF route. The season is young and I still have a lot of time to have issues, but so far I have seen a huge difference with the FF training.

I would never be one to say that if a dog is not FF trained, that you do not deserve the dog or to hunt. I have hunted 15 years without a FF trained dog or even a dog at all in many cases. I am very happy with my decision to finally have a dog of my own and was fortunate to have an experienced trainer that helped me with the FF training. I do not regret either decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JDM    0
JDM

Verg - you should let us know who that trainer is so if I ever hear of anyone going to him, I can tell them not to. I have NEVER heard of a professional retriever trainer that does not do some form or force fetch, and I know quite a few.

I will continue to FF my dogs, which guys beg to hunt over, and come from some of the best lines you can buy.

If you guys only could see the difference between a real trained dog and the rest, you would understand. Two to three years out of a eight to ten year hunting career is a lot to me. I'll say it again, everyone has different standards. One thing I will agree with is that the more you hunt them, the better they get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  



  • Posts

    • Rick
      Court ruling would place unnecessary burdens on more than 500,000 White Bear Lake area residents Judge’s ruling would immediately halt important development within 5 miles of White Bear Lake, stalling road construction, utility improvements, and residential construction Ruling not supported by scientific evidence, creating precedent that could restrict development and impose new burdens on residents across Minnesota  The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources today announced it will appeal a Ramsey County District Court ruling regarding water management of White Bear Lake and its surrounding groundwater. Without appeal, the court’s ruling would place unnecessary burdens on more than 500,000 White Bear Lake area residents, and immediately halt important development within 5 miles of the lake – stalling road and utility improvements, business growth, and residential construction. The judge’s ruling – which is not rooted in the best available science – would not significantly help the lake reach the court’s desired water level, and would likely set a new statewide precedent imposing similar burdens and restrictions on residents, businesses, and communities across Minnesota. “The DNR is strongly committed to protecting Minnesota’s many precious water resources, including White Bear Lake and its surrounding aquifers. We take that responsibility very seriously,” said DNR Commissioner Tom Landwehr. “But responsible, effective water management must be supported by sound science. The decisions we make must balance the needs of all Minnesota residents and businesses to ensure everyone has reliable access to clean, affordable water. That important balance, and the quality of life we all enjoy, are at stake in this ruling, which merits a thorough review by the Minnesota Court of Appeals.” Under the District Court’s ruling, if water levels remain below 923.5 feet above sea level in White Bear Lake, new irrigation and development restrictions would be imposed on area residents and businesses. DNR data show, however, that White Bear Lake’s water levels have registered below this proposed 923.5-foot trigger level in 48 out of the past 58 years. And according to the best available science, the DNR has concluded these new restrictions would have little impact on raising or maintaining the court’s desired water levels in White Bear Lake. Nonetheless, if the District Court’s ruling is not overturned, residential watering would be banned for 500,000 area residents by early 2018, and could not resume until the lake rises above 924 feet. Under the court’s ruling, this expansive residential watering restriction would remain in place for multiple years during dry periods, and would have likely been in place for the past 10 years had the court’s order been in effect. Additionally, all temporary water permits for construction within 5 miles of White Bear Lake would be immediately prohibited under the court’s ruling – a change that would stall road construction, utility, and residential development projects in area communities. In the last five years alone, 31 construction projects within 5 miles of the lake required such a permit. “The DNR is firmly committed to protecting our lakes, rivers, and aquifers. But unnecessary water restrictions can be profoundly disruptive to people, our economy, and communities,” Landwehr said. “The science does not support such a broad irrigation ban, nor these extremely restrictive development prohibitions. More importantly, these restrictions would do little to achieve or sustain desirable water levels in White Bear Lake.” Landwehr said, however, that the agency does believe some changes to water use may be needed and it is developing an enhanced water model to better understand the impact of pumping from specific wells near White Bear Lake. “This is information that we have only recently been able to develop,” he said. “With this new tool, we are committed to working with local communities, businesses and residents to make carefully targeted, well-informed modifications to water use in the area.” DNR water experts and local government leaders have serious concerns about the precedent the court’s ruling could establish. If applied elsewhere in Minnesota, this restrictive approach to water management could severely curtail new and amended groundwater appropriation permits for all types of uses, beyond what is needed to ensure water sustainability. The DNR has until Oct. 30 to appeal the court’s decision, but is announcing its decision now because many area communities are concerned with the ruling and want to know how the DNR will proceed. During the appeal process, the DNR will work with permit holders in the White Bear Lake area to implement some elements of the ruling. The agency will be talking soon with communities about how it will approach this in as collaborative a manner as possible. Discuss below - to view set the hook here.
    • blindluck
      I wouldn't let length or hp determine that, just the wind.  I saw a boat that lost a rivet this last year and have heard about a weld cracking out there.  The wind is no joke out there and any boat can take a hit.    If it is really windy I just swing into Kabekona Bay.   Otherwise, just count on it taking a while to get out to spots.
    • monstermoose78
      I do, never thought about it. I will ask my buddy and I will have to work on blind retrieves. I never have done blind retrieves with Finn. I will have learn up on it now. If you have any tips or tricks it would help. Thank you Dave 
    • FishinCT
      Didn't catch a ton of fish this weekend but the ones we got were beauties. Just a bunch 15-17 inch fish with a 25" mixed in there. Last 2 days have been tough after the storm Sunday night. Marking tons of fish still and getting a good amount of bites on both spinners and lindys but most are biting short and tough to hook on the big minnows. Don't really want to throw on a stinger hook but that might be the way to go. Maybe should try pulling some cranks too. Looks like the rest of the week should be stable weather and good fishing!
    • Sunset Lodge
      Hello from the NW Angle of Lake of the Woods!

      Water temps are hovering in the low 60’s despite the very fall like weather we are experiencing. 

      The scenic Canadian shore lines are coming to life with various critters. Otter, bear and more making preparations for the coming winter.

      Walleye fishing in Canada is excellent with a jig and minnow or shiner. The most productive environment has been gaps at 15-18’ with plenty of current present. Good numbers of perch are being caught off deep edges or reefs at 30’ or more. Crappies are a little more difficult this week, the best chances are on a light set up.

      Around Minnesota, walleyes can still be had with a crankbait but favored methods are switching over to a jig tipped with a shiner on main lake points between 20 and 24’. 

      Muskies are moving deeper with anglers transitioning from casting to trolling. There is still time to boat a big fall fish!

      We hope to see you soon!
      Sunset Lodge
    • leech~~
      Welcome to the forum. Give it a month and throw it on C/list, it should go then.
    • rundrave
        Im not a waterfowl guy and dont do a lot of it. But isn't that why you retriever guys do blind retrieves? My GSP's dont always mark down birds either and I just send them with hand signals. I think its just something we have worked on over time. Do you know anyone that has access to a zinger winger launcher etc. That's about the only other way to replicate it with out doing the real thing.
    • monstermoose78
      Thanks Dave this seemed to help with grouse, woodcocks,and ducks.  How does a guy get a dog to stay focused on the sky watching for birds? Finn did great at sitting or laying down for ducks but he does not watch for them so he does not mark the birds then. Any ideas to get him to do this?  
    • Mike89
      one of the  rivers will do ya...
    • jb bj