Boat Buying - Your Thoughts?

[John Mickish]

Here is my .02 on this.

First off, your dream boat will change within the next 7 years. As your kids get older what they and you want out of a boat will be different than it is now.

Second, if you do go the long route on the boat loan and pretend you don't make double payments because with the newfound income there is the newfound kid, car, sauna or whatever. If you go with a long term load are you comfortable with probably never getting into the black on the loan value, at least for the first ten years?

Third, how far are you willing to drive to get this dream boat? You could always make a mini vacation out of it and travel to a state that is 600 miles away. Increase your radius and you increase the number of boats to look at.

Fourth, If your wife wants to buy in the spring tell her that is when boats are at the highest value for the year. Between now and the boat show is the time to purchase. Actually, between now and November is the best time, that way the dealer dosen't have to store it for the winter.

Finally, as stated before, if you are going to own a boat for any amount of time there is a very good chance that the trolling motor, GPS, sonars and stereo will all be replaced at least once so changing them now on a used boat really isn't that big a deal (you can do it yourself and not pay the dealer. It's not brain surgery), and that way you can get exactly the electronics you want and have the enjoyment of purchasing them yourself and keeping that money off of the loan.

I'm in the same boat so to speak as you are, BC. After some discussion with the wife I have decided to purchase used this fall, put the electronics on that I want and be happy for now. I will have my dream boat in a few years after my youngest graduates but until then I'll buy used.

Hey, don't tell anyone but if the countries economy dosen't turn around here pretty fast there might be some real good buys on some barely used boats in the next few years!! If a person is in the position he might be able to score a pretty nice boat for way less than a dealer sells them. Think about it, right now people are trying to dump their half million dollar houses and can't so pretty soon the toys are going to have to go down the road too.

[cold one sd]

I was at the local Lund dealer the other day and he had a 2 year old Pro V and I think it had a 150 yammy on it and had been on the water twice. I think he is selling it on consignment for a guy that doesn't use it. Almost as nice as new.

[eyepatrol]

This is all very good info, although I'd have to say again that buying with strictly cash and not taking a loan out just isn't in the cards for me and my family. I've got a wife and 2 yound kids ages 3 and 1 (just turned on the 18th and 19th this month) so I want a boat that is going to be big enough, safe enough and reliable enough to get my family in there, out there and back home.

As to the 12 and 15yr loans MNF, I'd agree with you. Sure it can be done to be able to afford more of a boat and probably a new boat, but after doing some more research on used boats tonight (and some non-currents), there are some awefully nice rigs out there that I've now added to my list. Pretty respectable prices too, such that we could probably take out an 8 year loan instead of 10yrs. My last boat, a Warrior, I had that for 7 years (sold it last year). Would still have it for another 3-5 years, but family matters took priority and it needed to go.

Whatever boat we get, we'll keep it until it's paid off, and thensome. Maybe I'm the odd man out, but I really don't care what the re-sale value is when I'm ready for another boat. That doesn't mean I don't take care of my equipment....I take especially good care of it. I'm just not that concerned about re-sale.

And also MNF...I should give you my home phone number so you can talk to my wife! Maybe YOU can convince her we should get a boat now and not later! And I'd have to agree that if the economy goes downhill, there may be more opportunity out there at better prices. Although I wouldn't think it would happen in the next 6 months unless we got another 9/11, God forbid.

Oh, and one other thing MNF....you're right, there are pretty good deals that can be found a distance away. We're searching about a 400mile radius which basically includes MN, ND, SD, IA and WI. That's one thing I've learned from my wife since getting married to her....keep your options open and SHOP AROUND! I think she maybe feels I shop around too much now.

Thanks again everyone for the comments and suggestions!

[John Mickish]

I've got my eye on a Pro V down in Iowa that we will probably go look at next weekend. One thing about purchasing far away and this time of year, you can make a rediculously low offer and what have they/you got to lose?

[LMITOUT]

Basscatcher -

Sounds like I have the right boat for you!

It knows your favorite lake too!

[PerchJerker]

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I suppose the one exception would be if perchjerker were to sell me his boat for real super cheap! (let's see if he reads this!)

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Shoot me an offer dude, we'll see if you and I define real super cheap the same way

There's no question that the best deals to be had are on new non-current boats or used boats. That's what I've bought in the past and that's what I was planning to buy this time ---- until I came across the model that I bought, it was the first year this model was on the market and there weren't any used ones around (and still aren't from what I have seen).

Your best deals on used or new non-current will be in the fall. If you aren't tied to a specific make or model I would shop now and be ready to throw out some lowball offers if you find some boats you want. The worst that can happen is you will get turned down, but you also might get into your boat for several thousand less than if you wait until spring.

For the record I will say that I STRONGLY DISAGREE with the guys that have hard and fast rules about not financing a boat, or not financing for over 5 years, etc. If that's what they want to do and it makes them feel good about they way they manage their financial situations, then more power to them. But that does not mean it is the right choice for everyone.

iffwalleys has it right in my opinion -- it's a personal choice and one that you (and your wife) need to be comfortable with.

It's obvious that you have put a ton of time and effort and thought into this whole process. If you decide you're comfortable financing, taking on the debt and interest and going for a longer term, then I wouldn't call it a bad decision. It's not the best decision in strictly financial terms, but you're not buying a boat for strictly financial reasons -- you're buying a boat for quality time and family time and it's up to you what price you put on that and if you can afford it.

My wife and I could afford our boat only if we financed it. We wanted to use and enjoy it with our kids NOW, instead of waiting and loosing out on the time. The only regret I have when I look back is that I didn't do things like this sooner.

Good luck with your decision.

[eyepatrol]

Just as an example of the boats I've kept on my list and the prices they're going for, they include the following (and in no particular order):

2004 Alumacraft Tournament Sport 175 & 185 w/ 150hp - 200hp motors and full electronics

2005 Alumacraft Trophy 180 & 190 w/ 150hp motors and full electronics

2005 Starcraft Futura 180 w/ 150hp motor and full electronics

A number of 2004 and 2005 Crestliner 1850 Sportfish boats with 150 - 175hp motors and full electronics

And a number of 2004 - 2005 Lund 1800 Fisherman boats with 150 - 175hp motors with full electronics and one even includes a 9.9 4-stroke kicker with electric lift

Lastly, a 2006 Skeeter WX1880 with 150hp motor, full electronics and T8 kicker motor.

Every single one of these boats is under $25,000 with the exception of the Skeeter which is a little more. In fact, nearly all these boats are $20,000 - $22,000. Compared to new boats which I'd guess would be around $30K or more, I guess I see these rigs as a good price. Not all these boats are used either, about 1/4 of them are new non-currents.

If you guys think these are high prices for these types of rigs, let me know 'cause I'd hate to get duped! To me they seem reasonable with the research I've done to date.

[eyepatrol]

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Shoot me an offer dude, we'll see if you and I define real super cheap the same way

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ROTFLMAO!! I don't think we'd even be speaking the same language on that one!

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you're not buying a boat for strictly financial reasons -- you're buying a boat for quality time and family time and it's up to you what price you put on that and if you can afford it.

My wife and I could afford our boat only if we financed it. We wanted to use and enjoy it with our kids NOW, instead of waiting and loosing out on the time. The only regret I have when I look back is that I didn't do things like this sooner.

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EXXXXXXXXACTLY!!!!!!! That's exactly the view point I'm trying to make. I don't have anything against those who wish to pay in cash or in 5 years or less....like you said, more power to them. I'm glad they're able to get into a boat and I wish more people could have the opportunity to. But what you said PJ is right on!

[eyepatrol]

You mean the Aluma with the 60hp motor I saw you in that day? Or you talking something else?

[eyepatrol]

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One thing about purchasing far away and this time of year, you can make a rediculously low offer and what have they/you got to lose?

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Absolutely! Some of these used boats have been advertised for sale since 2005 by private sellers. I know if it were me, I'd want to get rid of the thing in a month or less. The dealers, with the '07s coming in already, have got to be itching to get rid of ANYTHING they have in '05s or older for new non-currents. I guess I've never given them a lowball figure to see what they've said. I've just accepted what they've given for prices as being bottom dollar offers.

[LMITOUT]

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You mean the Aluma with the 60hp motor I saw you in that day?

Or you talking something else?

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That'd be the one. Too many people have seen me catch fish in that boat so I need to sell it and get something different. Getting tired of being followed all the time.

[eyepatrol]

Ohhhhh I get it....so are you implying that you want to sell it to me because I don't know where the fish are and I'll lead the crowds away from where you fish???

Just kiddin'!

[LMITOUT]

lol...no, not implying you don't know where the fish are but they can chase you around for a while too!

[eyepatrol]

You know, oddly enough, all the times I have caught fish on my favorite lake nearby you, I've never had a boat come by or follow me around, even with the net being waved around. People must just not think of fishing in that area. They just launch their boat and zip over to the other side of the lake. Fine by me though.

[LMITOUT]

Yep!

With the miserable weather forecast this weekend I may start doing some boat shopping also and head up to St. Cloud. I have it narrowed down to three brands that I want to start picking apart more in the next few months and hopefully I can commit to one so that I can order and have it here by spring.

Every boat has something different that I don't like. I think that someone needs to design a modular boat so that they can be built to your specifications. I want the livewell here while someone else may want it there, etc. That'd be the ticket!

[eyepatrol]

Exactly. As you've said, there are things I don't care to have which are standard and other things I'd like to have which are either optional or would need customizing.

One thing that is a turn off to me is the manufacturers come out with these standard boat packages and half the stuff I don't even care to have. Take for example, some of these boats are standard with stereo & cd player along with sun top, swim ladder, ski tow bar and say an X52 locator. Well heck, I don't care to have any of those items, yet from what I've been told, a dealer won't just take them off there and reduce the boat price. Kind of like taking running boards off a vehicle you want....you can have them taken off, but they won't reduce the purchase price (at least from my experiences).

[John Mickish]

BC, this logic might work on the misses. The numbers I am going to throw out here are just for easy math but you will get the idea.

Say your budget is 23,000 and now you find the boat you want (holdover) for 21,000 and you lowball the dealer to 20,500. In the spring when the fever is high the dealer will probably "throw in" some stuff you don't want and tell the public what a great deal this is at 24,000. Thats a 3,500 dollar difference between now and spring. Not only is that the difference in price up front there will also be the difference that financing that 3,500 will make. Maybe add another $500-1000 over the cost of the loan. Tell the wife that with the money you would save by purchasing it now you could go on a real nice vacation, or some killer jewelry (that will get you very far in life) or something like that. You never know, she might see the logic....

[eyepatrol]

I hear ya MNF. I'm a big numbers cruncher kind of guy, and I've thrown all kinds of scenarios out there to her. New non-currents being gone, higher interest rates as time goes on, higher cost of additional equipment because prices don't decrease over time, and so on. She hasn't budged and I've just resigned myself to know that we won't be buying until next year. It's mostly my own fault anyway, as I told her we would wait a year to save money for a down payment, then buy in '07. She's stood very firm on holding me to that. I'll know better to keep my trap shut next time though.

[sdstatekid]

My dad bought an 01 or 02 1700 Lund Fisherman with a 150 merc efi on it this spring and we have been very happy with it, i probably had it out more than he did. He got a great deal on it as it had less than 40 hours on it. He sacrificed some in the that it doesn't have great eletronics on it and the bow mount trolling motor is a little to small but i think it worked fine, you just have to run it at higher power and charge it every night. It also works great for tubing and playing around in, although it is a little hard getting back in the boat when you are done tubing or swimming. It also handles rough water really well.

[Keith_MN]

Basscatcher,

One more thing to add to the mix that I haven't seen discussed. If you do buy a used boat make sure that the hull warranty is transferable. I learned about this the hardway when I bought a 3 month old Smokercraft. It was my first real boat and I just assumed that the hull warranty could be transfered. I would have even been willing to pay a nominal fee for the transfer. Bad assumption on my part. Fortunately my boat insurance stood behind my hull repairs.

[jigger]

Basscatcher.. if this boat is going to be used for recreation.. you are going to need the swim ladder, sun top, radio and such....believe me you are going to spend more time pulling a tube, a swim tube that is, than you know..."Dad can we go tubing" will be repeated more than you know.

[NWBuck]

Amen to that jigger

We went with the 1800 Fisherman and 150...back when you could get a new one with a 4 stroke Yamaha (2003). Had I wanted strictly a fishing boat, I'd have gone with the Pro V. Strictly a pleasure boat, certainly another breed as well. But the Fisherman is a great combo boat that has caught a ton of fish and pulled kids and their friends about the same amount...perhaps more.

If we had waited until we could afford this boat (or similar) for cash, my kids would be gone. I have a photo album full of pictures of my 7 year old son and I catching anything from bluegills to pike. He bugs me almost daily to go fishing again, and I wouldn't trade these memories for anything. The boat will be paid off soon enough, and it is part of the monthly budget I enjoy paying, because it reminds of good times had, and yet to come.

[Pikeslayer]

I wish I would have bought anew boat.I like old clasic stuff so Iwent with a 1959 16ft alum Starcraft,nice boat but finding parts for my power trim has been a nightmare

[Down Deep]

My opinion, based on what you have stated thus far, is that you already seem to be cutting a fine line financially. You state that you had to take 5K to replace your HVAC cutting into your boat fund. This type of expense should be accounted for in your household budget for home repair. I'm not preaching, but a boat is a luxury and shouldn't interfere with what should be predictable family expenses.

A $20,000 boat at 7.5% for 12 years ($215.00 per month) will cost you approximately $10,500 in intrest over 12 years. But raise your monthly payment by $100.00 per month and you can knock the intrest down by 2/3rds and 6 years off the number of payments. $100 is roughly 1 sack of groceries per week. Point here is that if you go long term to get more stuff now you will spend a fortune in intrest and the more you finance the more you pay BIGTIME. Long term financing for a purchase that will almost totally deprecialte by the end of the term and more than likely will require substantial maintenance cost makes no prudent financial sense. You also limit your flexibiity to trade up or sellout without getting stung with a big payoff.

The only reason that these 10 to 12 year finance deals are offered is so boat sellers can expand the market base for higher priced and more profitable units. Like you said the more years that are financed the higher the interest because the risk of default for the lender increases.

My advice would be to set a payment that you can live with now for a term of 5 to 6 years and purchase a boat the fits that price. There is nothing preventing you from upgrading in 3 to 5 years if your financial picture changes: but it could also change for the worse. (ie the furnace goes again)

[eyepatrol]

All very good points here! First, yes, we are looking into the family/fishing type of boat. The Lund Fisherman, The Alumacraft Trophy, the Crestliner Sportfish, the Stratos 386XF and so on (there's about 8 models we're eyeing). We're looking at the 18.5' lenghth boats that have the jump seats, the bow cushions, the ski tow bar, swim ladder, sun top, etc. although we could do without the swim ladder as my folks have one they no longer use.

My kids just turned 3 and 1 a couple weeks ago. It will be a while before they're skiing yet, but tubing could be in the cards next year (slow trolling speed) and progressing from there. I do have other relatives though that like to ski and rough it up on a tube.

We're certainly going to miss the additional $5K we had allocated for a boat, but the "loss" (for lack of a better term) of that money simply means instead of getting a totally decked out boat, we'll get something a little less now and add other equipment on later (i.e. - kicker motor, second sonar, etc). The other items will be put on in 2008 (unless we find a used boat with all the goodies) We've been financially responsible enough to have the means necessary to buy a boat, replace the HVAC and still have money left over. We just have our limits that we won't exceed for minimums and maximums.

12 years or more I believe is certainly out of the question. I know we could get the boat paid off in less than that, but if we go 12 years, I know my wife will hold me to keeping the boat for that long, whether we pay it off early or not. I'd like to keep my options a little more open than that.

Thanks again for all the great comments, suggestions and concerns. We've been looking over, studying and considering boats heavily for at least 6 months now, although on a personal note, I've been researching boats since the first day after I sold my previous one. It's been quite a learning experience and a whole heckufa lot of fun! My first boat, I just took my buddies advice and went and bought one. This time, there's a lot more thought process being put into it (and I have a wife to appease now too)!!!!