Which rifle?

[J Boo]

I am looking to buy a new rifle. I will use it mostly for deer hunting in Minnesota, but I would like to go out west and try elk sometime. I am looking at Browning's A-Bolt .270 WSM and 7mm WSM. Would these be good choices and is one better than the other?
Thanks

[Gissert]

This kind of question is always a lighning rod, lol.

The best rifle is one that you can shoot comfortably, and with confidance. See if you can shoot some friends rifles to gauge what your tolerance for recoil is. A big bore cannon is not much good if you dread pulling the trigger.

The new WSM calibers sure seem like the hot ticket. I have never cared for long actions, and the Ultra Mag craze just did not get me excited. These new shortys have my attention.

The guns you listed will certainly kill elk. Just use well constructed bullets such as the Nosler Partition or Barnes X bullets.

My current favorite is my Savage 111 in 338 Win. mag. Recoil is stiff, but not punishing. It is a no frills rifle, but is the most accurate gun I own, except for my 220 swift.

[CodyDawg]

Good advice. As un-sexy as a .30-06 is, it still gets the job done just fine, plus there is a plethora of bullets available for it. The flinching issue should not be overlooked, you are better off with a .270 without flinching than a cannon if you flinch.

[J Boo]

Does the 7mm WSM have a lot more kick than the .270 WSM or are they about the same? I have never shot a rifle so I don't know exactly what to expect. I am not to worried about a little kick but I don't want a gun that will make me flinch every time I pull the trigger.

[Gissert]

I have not shot a WSM in any caliber, so I cannot personally vouch for recoil levels.

That said, a short fat cartridge case such as a WSM is more efficient with its powder than a longer skinny case such as the ultra mags. A short action is less likely to be short stroked in the excitement of shooting at game than the longer actions.

270 and 7mm are close enough in bullet diameter to where the choice to me would come down to how the ballistics looked on paper. Consider the available bullet weights and down range energy into your decision.

Don't eliminate the 300 WSM if recoil is not a problem for you. For big tough critters such as elk, the extra power and bullet weight is nice to have, as long as you are comfortable with the rifle.

While I am not a fan of semi autos, I think Browning may be chambering the WSMs in the BAR now. The semi autos do not generate as much felt recoil and a bolt gun of the same weight. I shot semi autos for years, but grew to not care for the triggers.

[J Boo]

Thanks for the advice.

[benelli_dude2002]

I shoot a 300 WSM myself. I just got it last fall just in time for the MN deer season and I had it broke in on opening morning. I did a lot a reading up on this particular caliber before I made the purchase. I too hope to one day try my luck for elk out west. I hunt mainly moose and whitetail in Canada because the season is longer and not as many people. I do hunt here in MN too. I got the stainless A-bolt and I'm a bigger guy so recoil don't bother me much. You might want to go with a BOSS for reduced recoil but you do gain some sound. I hunted with a ported 7mm rem mag a few times and I didnt care to have my ears ringing after a few shots. But as far as recoil it real makes a big difference. I also looked at the 270 WSM and 7mm WSM but I already got a 270 Win. and just sold a 7mm Rem. Mag so I went with the 300 WSM and so far I love it. I get good groups off the bench with factory loads. I went back to where I shot that deer last fall and ranged with a laser range finder and it read 435 yards. My longest shot yet to date. But there is so many calibers to choose from now and every year it seems like they are coming out with new ones it might get confusing. BUt as far as short mags go I think either one of the three is a good choice. Hope this helps. Brian

[simplefish]

I've shot the .270 wsm, and the .30 wsm. From what I can tell they both have just about the same trajectory, with the .30 having a lot more kick. Though I could be wrong. I have an uncle in Montana and he uses/and has taken both deer and elk with a .270. The .270 wsm packs more kick than a standard .270 but it gains more range, and knockdown power, because the powder burns more efficiantly. The .270 will work just fine for elk, and it won't shred all the meat in a deer. I haven't shot the 7mm wsm but I think that pretty much the only differance is range, they have pretty much the same bullet. If you will mostly be hunting out here in MN than go with the .270 wsm, I'm really impressed with it. It will work for farther ranges but not as far as the 7mm wsm. Just make sure you use a good quallity bullet like the fail safe, partition, silver tip, or x-bullet in whatever you choose. And You get what you pay for in scopes. It's better to spend a lower amount of $$$ on a gun and more on a scope. A few good ones arethe Leupold Vari-x 3 which I believe is 2.5x-8x (which I used last year, it's light, short and you can see the whole world through it), and I have heard that the Swarovski 3x-9x AV is pretty decent. Don't buy a scope with too much power, 3x-9x is pretty much all you need unless you plan on doing varmit hunts with your gun. Hope this helps.

[Fisher Dave]

Dont forget the good old 308.

The recoil isnt that bad and will drop an Elk without a problem. I shot competitively for years and used a 308 for several years on KD ranges (up to 600 yards).

A 308 is not my favorite calibur, but they are very distance friendly.

[jwilli7122]

if you have never shot a rifle before- my suggestion is that you go with a .30-06 or .308. The .30-06 is the most popular centerfire caliber of alltime for a reason. (and the .308 is basically a short action version of, ballistically, the same caliber.) You couldn't make a better deer cartridge, or a more versatile one. It's easy and fun to get caught up in all the gun magazine hype about the new calibers, but the fact is, it's hard to improve on the old standard. Buy a .308 or .30-06 first, and you'll be covered for everything. Only purchase a specialty caliber after you know you need one. (chances are, you won't)

[Grabs]

No matter which caliber you decide you want, I would highly recommend looking at a 550 Lux by CZ. These guns are great and and will compete with the best of the American made guns, but at a fraction of the cost.

I bought a .30-06 550 Lux two years ago and love it. This past year I added a Bushnell 4200 Elite in a 1.5x6. Great combo for deer hunting in heavier brush areas and during drives.

If you need more info about these guns or where to find the best deals let me know, I found large price differences out there.

[email protected]

[Guest]

Ive shot a 270 browning bar for years tough to beat the 270 cliber I just bought last year a 7mm ultra mag for hunting out west but at distance within 400 yards im still more comfortable with the 270. If i hhad it to do over again the 270 ultra short puts up really impressive numbers and cant be near the cannon the 7 mm ultra mag is. The 270 alone is plenty of rifle for elk. many elk have been taken with them. If you dont put the bullet where it conts you could shoot a howitzer and lose game. Just my 2 cents good luck and pay a lot of attention two optics i put a sheppard on my ultra but i wish i had put a nikon instead

[Grand River Zip]

I also shoot a .308. Tell me about this WSM. I am guessing that is one of the short cartridge? I really don't follow all the updated equipment. Thanks

[jwilli7122]

Grand- the WSMs (winchester short magnums) are short, fat cartridges that provide magnum ballistics in short action rifles, which are inherently sturdier, and therefor, sometimes more accurate than long-action rifles. Short action guns also can be shorter and lighter than long action guns, if desired. Supposedly, the short magnums are also more efficient than the old magnums like the 300 win. and the 7mm mag. This has to do with the way the powder burns. So, they can get equal ballistics with less powder- and less kick. So, if you want 7mm mag ballistics, you can now get them in a WSM chambered gun which, all other things being equal, should be smaller, more accurate and should kick less. Why anyone would need magnum ballistics for anything in Minnesota is another question.

[jwilli7122]

grand- I should mention that there are currently 3 WSMs (unless they just came out with a new one): 270 WSM, 7mm WSM and 300 WSM. ballistically, the 7mm WSM is approximately equal to the old 7mm mag, while the 300 WSM is approximately equal to the 300 winchester mag. The 270 WSM is faster than the 270, and I think it's almost as fast as the 270 weatherby.

[simplefish]

The only really big differance between normal rifles and wsm's is that wsm's have more powder and burn their powder more efficiantly in the shorter fatter shells than normals do in their longer thinner shells. This causes the wsm's to gain a few hundred feet per second more than the normal rifle, but also causes more kick. The guns are shorter and in some cases lighter than their longer counterparts. They shoot the same bullets though, but are usually fitted with higher end bullets, winchester uses silvertips (my fav) and fail safes, Remington loads partitions, and Lazzaeroni loads sierra or nosler partitions. My Favorite setup is the .270 Wichester short mag. with the Ballistic Silver tip or the Partition. I believe they have smaller bullet weights, and in MN you don't need anything big. Smaller bullets waste less meat and kill em' just as dead. And they are easy to reload, just use a good bullet, a slow burning powder and standard primers. But the factory loads will get the job done just fine. Hope this helps.

[benelli_dude2002]

They got a 223 WSSM ( winchester super short mag ) which is quite a bit faster than the 22-250 and there is also a 243 WSSM. Which might be my next one. It would be a good varmint caliber and I wouldnt care it cuts the critter in half cuz I dont eat them and it would still be legal for deer. Just my 2 cents. Brian

[jlm]

If you are looking to spend a little more $$ for a gun that will last a lifetime, I would seriously consider the .270WM, the .300WM, the .340WM or the 30.338WM (I think I did that right). My personal opinion is that these are some of the best factory rifles made and have great acc. and traj. I would also take a look at the Lazzaroni rifles, they have some great guns to. The shell prices are a little more but you also get great factory loads that are very accurate. Someone mentioned that the 30-06 was Americas favorite gun but I would dispute that, I think that recognition belongs to the good old 30-30 or some of us call it the dirty thirty! Good luck, they are all great guns that you will someday pass to your sons or grand sons! Don't go cheap on the scope either!!!!!!!!

[Lunker]

Go with a 270! I love mine and it's a great gun for target, deer, or every other big game Animal In the country(besides grizzlies), or even varmits and predators. Long shooter, but still got some power.

[simplefish]

I was looking at something the other day and it said that the only differance between the .270 and the 7mm is that the 7mm bullet generally weights 10 grains more. The trajectory and speed are almost identical. You can take just about anything with either cartridge. The only native N. American big game animals I wouldn't try either one is the moose and the grizzly/brown bear. For that I would at least take a .300 in the woods with me, preferably a .338. Good scopes are a must. Spend as much or more on one as you would on the gun. With scopes you get what you pay for.

[benelli_dude2002]

I would go with any of these calibers and i would have to disagree with not using the 270 on moose. I have used a 270 on moose for years and it has never failed me. I seen my dad take his longest shot ever on a moose with his 270 and dropped it in its tracks. Shot placement is key. I know i shouldnt say this but I watched one of my cousins shoot 9pt buck with a regular 22 LR and it fell right in its tracks. So any caliber that you mention should be good for just about any big game out there. Good luck and Happy hunting Brian

[jlm]

The .270 is a good gun and the .270 magnums are even a better gun but I would not use this on a moose or a bear. Shot placement is the key and I would agree totally on that. However, if you are hunting for moose, even a direct hit in the heart will rarely take down a moose "in its tracks" unless you shoot him in the head or his spine. It does not have enough energy to produce the hydrostatic shock needed to bring the animal down in its tracks. Can it hapeen? Yes. Will it always happen...no way. Why is this important? Well, its getting to the point in MN where you need to bring the animal down right away because if it runs onto another parties land and they say you can't retieve it, you are out of luck. That is a terrible loss especially for such an awesome trophy such as a moose. If you have a caliber that has more energy and more knock down power, your odds of taking the animal down right away increase with good shot placement. That is not to say that they will go down all the time right away either, but your odds are much better. If you plant to hunt moose and deer with the same claiber, I would go with at least a .300 WM, WSM, Weatherby Mag, or even a larger caliber. Good luck!

[simplefish]

I agree with jlm. The .270 is a fine cartridge but it just doesn't have enough energy transferance for my likings. Why choose a rather small cartridge for moose or b. bear when we have such a wide range of other calibers that will take the animal more cleanly and effectivly. For anything bigger than an elk I will always choose at least a .300. It's simple, bigger animal, bigger bullet. More energy transferance. That's not to say that you can't take either game with a .270. It can and has been done. I just wouldn't pick it for my alaskan moose, bear hunt. Or especially for my once in a lifetime hunt in MN. At long ranges the bullet makes the 1000 pound limit for deer sized game but I like more punch for something like a moose. Especially if they are close range. Them suckers can get testy. It's personal preferance and what you can shoot strait and have confidence in. For me it's a .270 for deer and such and a .300 or .338 for moose, b. bear. I just don't have confidence in the .270 for larger game. This got long and I may have repeated myself a couple of times but I am to lazy to re-read it and edit it. Good hunting.

[benelli_dude2002]

not to stir anything up but I think the 270 is just fine for moose. It may not be my first choice of caliber but it would be one of them. I'm fortunate enough to hunt these big critters every fall and my dad does too. Now that i got this 300 WSM I 'm going to try that this fall. I have shot several moose with my 270 and watch them go down quickly. Only 2 moose I seen drop in its tracks was shot with a 12 gauge and my 7mm but they were fairly close. I think it makes a difference too if the animal is being pushed and they are all pumped up. i remember one cow moose i shot and she was running towards me and i shot once and she was still coming at me so i shot 2 more times with my 7mm rem mag before she fell 15 feet away. We later dicovered that the first shot went through the heart and the other 2 not too far off. every year there is some new caliber coming out or they make it better. BUt like mentioned before shot placement is the key. as far as other big game goes like grizzly or alaskan moose go with a bigger caliber. Like someone mentioned too put some good optics on it. Hope whatever you shoot works good for you and best of luck hunting this fall. Cuz it aint that far way. Happy hunting Brian

[J Boo]

I was down at Cabelas yesterday and bought my gun. I went with the 7mm WSM with a Leopold 3x9x40 on it. Haven't shot it yet but I can't wait to. What would be the best bullet weight and type for deer in Mn?
I was also wondering if anybody knows where I can sight my new gun in at. I live in Ramsey.
Thanks for everything!

[Gissert]

J Boo-

Congratulations on the new firestick!

Go with a quality bullet suck as a Nosler Partition, Swift, Barnes X, etc. I am VERY partial to the Barnes myself. I am betting that the 140 grain range will work out well in this gun. There are quality factory ammo availible with these premium bullets.

Make sure you break in the barrel correctly. Do a search and you will find info on how to do this.

The last gun I broke I did the following: I had the barrel and action cryo treated before I even shot it. This relieves the manufacturing and machining stresses. When It came time to shoot, I brought my cleaning kit to the range. After the first shot, I ran a wet bore patch down the barrel, followed by a wet brush, and then a dry patch. I did this after every shot for the first ten shots. Next, I would fire three shots, and then clean again. I did this for about six groups of three. After that, I would go five rounds before cleaning, shooting five groups.

Accuracy was not the greatest, so I started to use different powder and bullets until I found one that worked well. Once I found a load that my gun liked, it now shoots sub MOA groups at 100 yards. (Savage 111 in .338)

[barebackjack]

All of this info is great, but I have another question to add. In reference to the the 270, 300 and 7MM, all WSM's, which of the three would a person recommend for a little thicker cover? I am interested in any one of the three SM's, I prefer the 270 only because that has been the caliber I've been using for a number of years and it has served well, but, I would like to try something new.

[bear hunter]

hay barejack i wood go with the300wsm. i was talking to a gun smith and he said that the 270-and the 7wsm bern out the barils kwikiker cuz thers so much powder and it burns too hotang screws up the croves in the barel its just too small of a calber to make a short mag just my 2 cents

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[Coldfeet]

I have a Thompson-Center Encore with a 30-06 barrel. I bought it two years ago for $400. It has to be by far the most accurate gun I have ever used. The only downside is that it is a break-action single shot, so if you use it for hunting, you better make sure you take a good shot. The great thing about them is that you can buy barrels for just about any caliber you can think of for about $200, including muzzleloaders. These make the best muzzleloaders that I've ever used as well. No messing around with percussion caps, just break it open and slap a shotgun primer in there and you're set. I've never had one single misfire. Anybody else use one of these?

[MikeYager - Suzuki]

If your ever on a trip in a remote area and forgot to bring your ammo you can easily find some for the old popular calibers. That is one of the reasons I got an 06.