The lake has been closed!!!!!!!!

[swamptiger]

Kelly:

The sheriff is an elected official. While I am sure he felt he was acting in the best interest of the public, as you say, he should have at least consulted with or informed you people who are most affected. He is a public servant, after all.

I think it would be a good idea for the Upper Red Lake Association to write a letter to the Sheriff expressing your displeasure with how the lake closing was handled. There will be another election at some point in the future. I am sure he is aware of that, also.

[Guest]

I agree Kelly. Closing it down with no advanced warning was a major public relations blunder for the sheriff's office. Hmmmm, I wonder how the sheriff would feel if he walked into the WW restaurant or bait shop in the middle of the day and you folks said "sorry, closed" Hmmm... just a thought.

Kelly, I suggest you document everything that has happened here concerning the closing: who you talked to, what actions they took, etc. I'd also have a lawyer on board in case you and others decide there was a gross misjudgement that caused loss of substantial business opportunity as a result of this.

[RogersResort]

I just got off the phone with Sheriff Keith Winger, my question to him was what would happen to someone who disregarded his order to stay off the lake with trucks and other vehicles, his reply was that they could be issued a ticket. My second question was are they issuing tickets to fishermen who are disregarding the closure of the lake accesses. I told him that I noticed many trucks on the lake again last night, and his answer was no.
I do know that none of the vehicles went on the lake from the south side because all of us honored the Sheriffs order.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of the resorts for sticking together on this issue.
Jerry@ROGERS'

[bigV]

I think the sheriff should be called to account immediately. There should have been a call explaining the decision to all the effected accesses by the sheriff the first thing in the morning which obviously didn't happen. When you're dealing with peoples lively hoods and you shut them down abruptly, there has to be immediate accountability. Bad president is being set

[Guest]

Pro Crappie Guide: Not wanting to take exception with your post on insurance covering vehicles that go through the ice. However comphrehensive coverage will pay for the loss of your vehicle as well as the recovery. I own an insurance agency and I am only speaaking for my company, but it is not an exclusion on our policy. Under our commercial auto policy it is an option to cover the vehicle on ice or not which also results in additional premium. Everyone should however consult with his own personal agent to determine their companies guide lines. We have paid for several of these claims. I'm not going to mention my company unless asked my point was not to advertise.

[crappie todd]

Some people are really stupid. I have read a few stupid comments here. Insurance companys and coverage if your vehicle goes through is a broad subject. Yep, not ALL will cover it. Then those that do, will be cancelled. Pay for it one way or another. Pay for it with your life. I certainly hope those here that think by having coverage to recover is Just the only thought then you must be the only one in your vehicle so if you do go through, The others can watch and save your ***. Or watch you drown. Take no passengers. Risk only your own life to seek a fish out. Be smart while being dumb.
Get real. PCG got the insurance thing from me.....So don't blame him for my stupid idotic dumbness thinking that NO insurance companys pay to recover your vehicle. That was all my stupidity........
I am dumber than all you guys driving on yet.
I thought fisherman had more brains than a dumb fish. Thanks for reassuring me, I am not as dumb as a fish and I am the smartest fisherman on dry land. And if you take offense to what I am saying........... think about what your response will be to me.
I See the above comment on revovery of vehicles. I am glad I now know I will get my 2001 Silverado recvoerd and pehaps a barand new truck to boot. All my fishing equipment and everything else that means so much to me.
Please, understand that in tyur response back to my post here, I am speaking more in terms of human lifes potential loss. I don't think my insurance policy covers my reincarantion. Once I am gone...... PCG goes on with out his Dad.
Don't give people the idea it's ok because
My insurance cover the loss of my vehicle while forgetting. the two guys that died IN Leech lake this weekend.
Enough said............ lets go fishing.....

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crappie todd

[This message has been edited by crappie todd (edited 04-08-2002).]

[This message has been edited by NINETOE (edited 04-10-2002).]

[vikingtom]

I'm with u Todd. Everyone is worried about vehicles, and not thinking about thier last breath as they sink to the bottom.

[swamptiger]

The question is:

Do I really need some elected official to tell me when the ice is safe?

Maybe I should move to Siberia...

[Guest]

First, let me say how very sad I am to hear about the tragedy at Leech Lake. I too agree that if people use their heads that there will be another day to ice fish. It might be next year, but they will be around to see it. I also believe that the Sheriff has the right to close a lake. We all know that many people will not think when they are on the ice. They may be ignorant in traveling on ice or they may just be careless. For this reason, when the ice is deemed to be unsafe, I think the Sheriff should close a lake. But, I believe that in this case, the matter could most definetly have been handled better. The people who have been taking care of URL and it's fishermen all year should have been consulted on the decision. At the very least, they should have been notified in a way other than finding a sign on their access road in the morning. I know that the people who have been taking care of the roads all year would in no way ever...EVER...risk the chance of losing equipment or a truck..let alone a human life. I saw how much care and work the URL crew has put in this year and in past years....and I wish next year they would be treated with more respect. Here's to all those who made my fishing experiences at URL the world class experience they were! THANKS EVERYONE!

A Nodak Ranger

[Guest]

Crappie Todd
I don't think anyone is saying its o.k. put their trucks in the drink because insurance will cover the expenses. I just think people were trying to correct a unintentional mistatement in case someone that does unfortuneately go through would know they might be covered by there insurance company for the loss. As we all know ice is never totally safe.
Crappie Addict

[jigglestick]

has ther been a meeting of the url ass'n called yet? i figure it would be in order. although this was a sucky deal, i believe there are-were measures that might have prevented this from happening like it did,or maybe from happening in the future. i would feel free to voice my oppinion if anybody cares to hear. eager to help in any way i can----jigglestick----

[Guest]

It's unfortunate, Kelly-P and the rest of the people on URL have done an excellent job!!!! If you consider the amount of people that have fished URL this winter and compare it to the number of vehicles that have gone through, the percentage would be in the thousands of a percentage. Let's not spoil this tremendous care of the fisherman and the resource for a few extra days!!!

Kelly- Feel very proud that you are one of the people responsible for one of the best end destination fishing spots in the state right now, and because of your dedication along with the dedication of a few others you also have THE BEST safety record going!!!!

Great Job, and we'll all be up in a few weeks with our boats!!!

[This message has been edited by URLRocks (edited 04-08-2002).]

[loadmaster]

I was on leech lake sun, the day after the truck went thru. We had 36 inches of good ice under us. We were out of whipholt which is right across of stoney point. We went to stoney point later in the day, and spotted where the truck went down, Did not see any pressure ridge near. What I have seen on leech is holes opening up big enough to swallow a truck with good ice all around them. Never could figure that out

[bturck]

If I offended anyone with my post regarding coverage of a vehicle while traveling on ice that was not the intent. It was done as a clarification of a long time myth, (that I too once believed) that if a vehicle leaves a public roadway there is no coverage. Was I trying to downplay or demean the value of life over that of a vehicle? ABSOLUTLEY NOT. We can buy vehicles and replace them all day long, however no amount of money can return a loved one to their family. I certainly did not entertain the idea of putting a kink in anyone's line when that information was passed along. Let's hope that no one else has to go through what this family is now expierencing, and my prayers go out to them now and in the days to come.

[swamptiger]

I have seen holes like this in good ice before. I have been told that sometimes it is caused by fish swarming and finning close to the surface. Has anyone else heard of, or seen this?

[Surface Tension]

Ive seen springs open it in shallow water. There usually has to have snow cover for insulation to do open.
This time if year you can see holes open from draining water. Sometime's it SIDER's when it open's.

Ive heard the fish finning thing too. I but think it's myth.

[jigglestick]

i too have seen holes open up due to draining water. i remember when i first started venturing out onto the ice seeing those holes early in the year, but they were frozen clear black ice. they had opened up due to draining water from snow melt, or from other water on the ice(pressure from excess snow, or rain, then refroze. used to spook me. then i noticed places where the snow was settling towards the center of an area,later to check it out and find one of these black holes. many times open water. can't say that iv'e seen one big enough for a truck to go through though. not to say that maybe the ice had weakened in that area enough to where it would no longer support the weight of a vehicle. the only thing is there hasn't been squat for snow to have melted off, and no rain either. hmmmm.oh well
keep your stick on(top)of the ice--jigglestick--

[Katoman]

I've seen holes open up next to ice houses. I had my house in about forty feet of water. The ice was a good 30" thick. We had a week of warm temps and a lot of wind. I hadn't been fishing for about a week. Some friends used the house. They called me and told me about it. I went out and sure enough there was a hole about 6-7' in dia. right next to the house. It almost looked like someone had taken a chainsaw and cut a hole. I pulled my house off. It was close to that time. The ice froze over but only an inch or so. I put markers around it. I could see someone driving across and going right down. One would never have suspected. People were driving on the ice for some time after. It wasn't close to shore,ridge or hump. I talked to some others about it. They told me the lake has underwater springs. They tend to pop up on the surface randomly. The darnest thing I had ever seen!!! I have fished that lake for thirty years and it was the first time I've seen that.

[kelly-p]

I would guess that draining water would be the main cause of holes opening up. Two years ago I saw some huge ones open up after a hard rain and wind.
Also rocks or a hump in the bottom closer to the surface then the area around must radiate some ground heat. I learned that when we were trying to find the rock piles at the mouth of the Tamarac last spring. Instant cold bath.

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Waskish Minnow Station
218-647-8652

[NINETOE]

Hey , Kelly those holes are caused by all them 2lb crappies you caught and released last sat night!

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...the MYSTERY is abound...

[cmpeterson1]

One thing I noticed on url was dirt on the snow,and this was on new snow.I augered alot of holes sat. And I found when ever I drilled over pocked ice,I found sand in the ice chips and it would chunk out.With all the traffic on url,road sand and salt is everywhere.And with the high winds this winter sand was blown all over.This time of year you can take a hand full sand,drop it on the ice and see how long it takes to burn though.And yes fish can wear out the ice from the bottom.Tullepe are bad for that,Feb.&March are the worst.They get all worked up,they say something shine in the ice.Thats why we use a dodger with a drop line.

[Craig_S]

Over the years I've also noted alot of sand on the ice. I don't think it comes from the traffic at all. Rather, it comes from sand stirred up in the water when the ice forms. I know that a set of auger blades cut alot longer and better on trout lakes than Big Red. I think the sand is in there all winter. You just see it during a thaw.

Craig and Kiddo

[kelly-p]

NINETOE,
If you remember I spent Sat. night looking for people or returning them back to where they got lost from. The classic was, "I think we were fishing by a red house, my buddies have a black truck. There were people around us. I don't really know what road we used when we drove out onto the lake."
I think the sand came from the beach because of the high winds during freeze up. There wasn't any snow on the beach at that time. The sand was there from the first days on the lake before any traffic.
The dirt showed up during a period of high winds in Jan.. We got part of the Dakota's and both their trees.
Craig_S,
How did you feel yesterday?

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Waskish Minnow Station
218-647-8652

[Sasquatch]

From what I know of old ice there are a couple things going. The movement of the water in the open holes is blowing or tapering out the hole starting from the bottom. Then if there is any water washing in from the top that is also wearing the ice.
The movement of the water tends to blow out holes even in mid winter, look what happens to a dark house hole if it is not allowed to freeze down to the bottom. The sides flare out toward the bottom & also get a shine. That all has to come from the water. Think about it.