Eating fish

[bturck]

Kelly whe we first started fishing LOW around 2000, eating fish on the lake was a no no. The limit at that time was an aggregate of 14, no more than 6 eyes, but they coukd all be Sauger. The limit was then dropped to today's 8 with no more than 4 eyes, or all 8 Sauger and eating fish was allowed on the lake.

Good luck to those who will be analyzing current data and setting forth the rules of the future. You have a tremendous amount of pressure. I agree with Labs, any change from summer to winter limits has to be made effective on Nov 1. Another post indicated a 5 fish limit on crappies, I personally have no problem with that. Once the committee comes up with the new rules of the game then it up to us to do our part when we drop that jig down the hole.

[Hoyt4]

I hope they ban the eating on the ice. I know we do not go in and would not go in for a fish fry. Steaks and a lot of other meals just means better planning.

Yes some might go in but those places who cook meals will not be gaurantee you get a seat and meal cooked once this happens. Most people will not make the drive which is fine with me. The resort and outfitters will stil get the business and just be a lot more catch and release.

More room on the lakes for the people that love going to red just for Red Lake. Even with catch and release I will still be there all winter and I know there are still going to be others with no complaints.

[Xplorer]

You will never be able to enforce that with the fish houses that now exist. You would either have to ban all fish eating (which is next to impossible) or leave it as is. People have been taking part in "shore lunches" since the beginning of time. Whats the difference on the ice. Yeah people put more pressure on the resource and you are gonna have that. It is called human nature. And not every wheel house eats a meal on the ice. I did once this year out of five trips. It is fun, it is enjoyable, and it should remain legal. When LOW turns back on next year a lot of the pressure will change. When Mille Lacs turns back on (and it will, good things coming soon for that lake!) the pressure will change. And when we have a more normal weather pattern the pressure will change. The concern being expressed on this forum is good to see, but a little overblown IMO. Many more controls in place than prior to the collapse. When Mother Nature wakes up she will help out. Enjoy the resource. The fishing is still fabulous out there.

You would rather see the winter fishing season close by mid-January, or a limit of 1 under 17" for the whole ice season?

[LABS4ME]

You will never be able to enforce that with the fish houses that now exist.

[LABS4ME]

Many more controls in place than prior to the collapse. Enjoy the resource.

Which one are those? The poundage quota? I think that is what we are talking about... not working out real well is it? What are the others?

I think we have been enjoying the resource.. a little too much! Like a drunk in a bar!

Good Luck!

Ken

[musky_tail05]

When LOW turns back on next year a lot of the pressure will change. When Mille Lacs turns back on (and it will, good things coming soon for that lake!) the pressure will change. And when we have a more normal weather pattern the pressure will change. The concern being expressed on this forum is good to see, but a little overblown IMO. Many more controls in place than prior to the collapse. When Mother Nature wakes up she will help out. Enjoy the resource. The fishing is still fabulous out there.

Huh...so do you have a fisheries biologist degree then? Or maybe you can see into the future being that lake of the woods and Mille lace will turn back on according to you? That doesn't make much sense to me. Guess I just don't understand the belief that people can take as much as they want and seemingly justify it because "the fishing is fabulous and you should enjoy the resource". Pretty sure that that ideology is what ruined a lot of fisheries in the first place. Maybe I'm a bit jaded or cynical, but I see no problem with releasing fish and enjoying the resource that way without thumping and frying my limit in the name of "enjoying the resource". Makes me wonder what priorities people have when they fish. That type of thinking is like the fat lady who wrecks the buffet by constantly going up plate after plate. Gluttony at its finest!

[JCHiggins]

quote "Overblown? Kelly can chime in... red Lake still put out over a million pounds just a few short years prior to the collapse... fishing was fabulous then too! not really wanting to go back to a boom and bust cycle again. Running down the road with blinders on is great until you get blind sided and T-boned! Nothing but ouch after that!"

That is the best reply and analogy that I ever heard. Well done sir.

[kelly-p]

fishin4sum, this is not as much directed at your post but more what I feel about this situation.

Quote:

You will never be able to enforce that with the fish houses that now exist.

Are saying that if eating walleye on the ice on URL is made illegal that fishermen in houses will just break the law and do it anyway?

Quote:

People have been taking part in "shore lunches" since the beginning of time. Whats the difference on the ice. Yeah people put more pressure on the resource and you are gonna have that.

But right now we are putting more pressure on the resource then the agreement and possibly the resource can handle. Just look at the increasing winter harvested pounds the past 4 years. 2012, 44,862 pounds. 2013, 93,007 pounds. 2014, 119,464 pounds. 2015, even with increasing the protected slot and lowering the limits TWICE, 127,000 pounds the first 2 months with February’s pounds still to be added in.

Quote:

When Mille Lacs turns back on (and it will, good things coming soon for that lake!) the pressure will change.

I hope Mille Lacs can recover. I’ve lived what the people there are living now. They have not had to go to 0 walleye harvest for a number of years like we did here but times there are very tough right now. I wish them the very best of luck. If just 50% of the fishing pressure that was on URL this past winter moves to Mille Lacs will the recovery continue or will the recovery be stopped in its tracks?

Quote:

And when we have a more normal weather pattern the pressure will change.

The 2014 winter season was one of the worst if not the worst ice/snow/slush/wind conditions on URL I have ever seen but we still harvested 119,464 pounds that winter. 71% of our YEARLY safe harvest pounds or about 35,000 more pounds then we should have to make sure there were enough pounds left for the summer harvest.

Quote:

The concern being expressed on this forum is good to see, but a little overblown IMO.

It is not overblown if you are someone that likes to fish URL during this upcoming summer season. They will be the first ones that will have to start paying the price for what we have done the past 1 ½ years. The pounds we are over the top of our safe harvest the past 1 ½ years are not free. There is a price to be paid. Most of the people reading this will just move on to the next “hot” lake and repeat the process again there. My gut feeling is that what happened to URL is a sample of the future of fishing in MN. Hopefully things will be learned from what happened. Not many will like this statement but I foresee a future in MN where any lake that has a road system will have to have a 2 or maybe only a 1 walleye limit in the winter.

Quote:

The fishing is still fabulous out there.

So was the winter of 89/90. We just pounded them from first ice right to the last day of season. We all know the rest of that story.

[Hazzard]

Kelly,

Why don't the resorts on the lake limit the amount of people they let out? Every time I was up this year they took my money. I also was never told by WW or Jr's that they will not fry my fish because they cooked up too many this year. If all of the resorts feel the same way then they could get together and do something about it right? But they wont because of the almighty $$$$$ and with the lack of snow and amount of people fishing I'm sure all the resorts are deep in the black this year. In my opinion the only ones that can fix it is the DNR but the big question is how. I think stiffer penalty's for poaching. Raising fees for licenses to hire more enforcement officers. Because of technology reducing the limits on every lake in the state is a must or this problem will just move to the next lake. The DNR should also be allowed to enter a fish house on public water at anytime to check for violations. You are on public water using a public resource if you don't like it stay home.

[jerkbait]

Kelly. Like Bturck said, yes fish can be eaten on the ice on LOTW. Started here the same time it did in the rest of the state. The biggest difference up here is probably the lack of a night bite, so the people that stay at the resorts have their fish cooked when they go into shore. The people in the wheel houses will cook theirs on the ice. Although with the lack of a night bite there are still plenty of people that go into shore for the evening and have the fish cooked and some beverages. MY feeling is if people are up for 2-3 days and want some fish to eat they will just go to shore and have them cooked if they can't do it on the ice. You are right though, having to go into shore would take a little bit of pressure off.

[Xplorer]

One resort did this year, and to call a spade a spade, got burned by it this year.

[fishin4sum]

Touched a nerve, cool! There were very few controls prior to the collapse that were being enforced. One of the biggest is the fish were not even being allowed to spawn. They were getting speared and netted off of their spawning beds. I also know for a fact many of the fish being harvested never made it to market! Vast quantities of wanton waste. Rotting in the woods! Limits were 6 fish a piece.

Mille lacs will come back strong! A seriously strong 2012, and 2013 year class coming into play in the next two years. If people can catch fish on Mille Lacs, they are not going to drive another 2.5 hours to catch the same size fish. LOW for the last couple of years has frozen up shortly after huge wind events clouding up the water pretty bad. Has made fishing relatively difficult. Pressures will change. The allowable fish harvest is a conservative number. Designed to be to stay on the safe harvest side of things. Winnibigoshish and the DNR I feel are getting it right. Too many big fish in the system and need to remove the pressure of large fish foraging/cannabalizing on young of the year. DNR learned I hope that trying to sustain a large fish population (Mille Lacs) leads to boom bust cycles. Is not natural. It saddens me when I see some people only satisfied if they catch a large fish.

Need to be careful on Red that the population size structure does not get too large either. Same thing will happen. All lakes will go thru ups and downs. Regardles of any human intervention. So will Red.

Oh, and i do have a degree in biology. Began in the direction of aquatic species management but ultimately ended up in another field. Time to go stand in it

[LABS4ME]

Huh???

Good Luck!

Ken

[Fishalittle]

One resort did this year, and to call a spade a spade, got burned by it this year.

Why do you say they got burned by it? Because other resorts had easy plowing and collected huge revenues? Because other resorts moved in on some unfished ice near them due to easy plowing? Not sure I am following you with this one. I was told they wanted to limit pressure from their access to improve fishing for rental customers in rented houses and still get a small piece of the wheelhouse pie in revenue with season passes capped at 50. Basically insuring 12,500 dollars in revenue. So now the question is the plan done due to being burned with a year with good ice travel or will it be in effect again next season?

I sensed some bad blood and craziness last weekend on the north side for sure. North shore resorts having to sit by their access to stop south shore customers from illegal crossing and confused on where they came from. It was an abnormal winter for sure!

[kelly-p]

Quote:

One of the biggest is the fish were not even being allowed to spawn.

I believe it was the 1985 or 1986 year class we wiped out the winter of 89/90 before they had a chance to spawn.

Quote:

They were getting speared and netted off of their spawning beds.

You talking about the gillnets set in Shotley Brook during the spawning run or maybe the fish traps in the Tamarac River during the spawning run? That was done by white "sportsfishermen" so be careful about pointing fingers.

Quote:

Limits were 6 fish a piece.

And still this happened.

Sunday, May 23, 1999

Greed depleted Red Lake's once-abundant walleye

Larry Oakes / Star Tribune

Buying black-market walleye wasn't the only way

non-Indians helped decimate the Red Lake

population. Dyrland said Waskish was the site

in some years of 25 percent of the statewide

arrests of over-limit anglers.

The walleye bit so well and so close to shore

that anglers often took their limit in an hour,

and otherwise law-abiding citizens couldn't

bear to quit. They would drop the fish in camp

and go out for more, which wardens call

"tripping" or "gunnysacking."

"Some had unbelievable amounts over their

limits," Dyrland said. "We'd fillet 100 to 200

or more confiscated fish a night and give them

to nursing homes."[/b

Again you might want to be careful about pointing fingers.

Quote:

Mille lacs will come back strong! A seriously strong 2012, and 2013 year class coming into play in the next two years. If people can catch fish on Mille Lacs, they are not going to drive another 2.5 hours to catch the same size fish.

What happens if 750,000 hours of winter season fishing pressure moves from URL to Mille Lacs? I'm sure other lakes and areas are looking at what happened at URL this winter.

Quote:

The allowable fish harvest is a conservative number. Designed to be to stay on the safe harvest side of things.

And we are a long ways over the safe harvest pounds.

[Big A]

Is it time for a Lottery system? (Like permits for moose?)

Every angler hopeful pays a hefty fee and the DNR draws permits/licenses and allows BLANK amount of anglers to fish BLANK lake?? Generates Dollar$ for enforcement, stocking, etc...

Call me crazy. Most do :-) , but I like the idea.

[Fishalittle]

Is it time for a Lottery system? (Like permits for moose?)

Every angler hopeful pays a hefty fee and the DNR draws permits/licenses and allows BLANK amount of anglers to fish BLANK lake?? Generates Dollar$ for enforcement, stocking, etc...

Call me crazy. Most do :-) , but I like the idea. [/quote

Sounds like you want to turn it in to a money game like hunting and fishing out west.....not a fan of that philosophy. Public resource...everyone should have a fair chance to enjoy it. Even if that means a 1 fish limit!

[LABS4ME]

Is it time for a Lottery system? (Like permits for moose?)

Every angler hopeful pays a hefty fee and the DNR draws permits/licenses and allows BLANK amount of anglers to fish BLANK lake?? Generates Dollar$ for enforcement, stocking, etc...

Call me crazy. Most do :-) , but I like the idea.

and are current lake shore owners exempt from said system? They (we) already pay outrageous land taxes and now may be unable to fish the lake they/we/I reside on? and then as cabin and lakeshore home values plummet becuase of the inability for the owners to be able to consistantly fish the lake it's on, (reducing the desire to own the property) the tax basis goes down with the values... and then the townships, cities, counties and State have a shortfall in property tax revenue, thus requiring them to raise money elsewhere.... so you get to pay even higher amounts of your income into the State so a select few get to fish a lake each year.

Call me crazy... most do... but I hate the idea!

Good Luck!

Ken

[Big A]

Certainly would be completely fair that property owners would be assured a permit.. that doesn't seem unreasonable at all. I LIKE THE IDEA

What ever happened to the Walleye Stamps the DNR was selling??

I liked that idea also. Good ca$h generator to aid the resource, help with enforcement, that type of thing...

I would not at all be surprised, based on current trends, if they continue in this way and the population continues its pattern and the ice fishing continues to increase in popularity and EASE... is it that big of a stretch of the imagination that some sort of permit/lottery type system could actually happen????

Just wondering out loud. As is with everything. Some would like it others would not and just about everyone complains when something CHANGES.

[Willy]

It's gonna be hard to stop the pressure on the lake no matter what you do. The fish are just too easy to catch. Seriously, it doesn't take alot to whack a pile of them and that appeals to alot of anglers.

It's a tough situation no doubt, the only real answer to fix the pressure issue is for the fish to quit biting. Explosion of baitfish, etc. etc.

I agree with Kelly about the future for the rest of the state also. Ice fishing has exploded, probably by a number of 500-700% in the last 5 years. Lots of technology that make catching fish much easier than it used to be.

I see it on our lakes down here also. Hot bites and lakes fished out in no time flat during the winter. Circus central makes it not as much fun anymore.

[Big A]

Perfectly stated!

Technology making it easier, warmer, safer, all good things... but all attribute to the zoo's and the resources being wiped out. Like a swarm of locusts...

[Xplorer]

Fishalittle,

Because they should have sold every road pass they could have starting Dec 1st on, and burned up all the virgin ice between the east side and the rez line on the north half of the lake by mid january like the south shore resorts did. The old "make hay while the sun shines" ya know.

They could have sold thousands more $20 weekend passes and made a ton more money, and by Jan 15 there would not have been one acre of "fresh ice" on the lake. They got burned trying to make sure their customers in February could have "new" ice to fish. Instead, it all got swiss cheesed. That is what I mean by "burned".

[crestliner61]

How about closing the lake to fishing between 10:00PM and 6:00AM for a year?

[walleye29us]

The catch and release guys that hit the lake 5 or 6 times a year do way more damage then a guy that catches his 2 fish and goes home to eat them IMO.

[kelly-p]

Quote:

So now the question is the plan done due to being burned with a year with good ice travel or will it be in effect again next season?

Beacon Harbor will be limiting their road to season passes again next year. It worked pretty good this year considering all the fishing pressure on URL and very little snow. Hillman's and Beacon's both planned where each of their roads would go for all winter and kept their main roads about 1 mile apart all year so the fishermen on both roads had more room. With 50 season passes on Beacon's road other then the rental customers everybody knew each other and watched over everybody else's houses. It was quite, peaceful and relaxing. It reminded me of fishing years ago. A number of fishermen have already signed up for next year. It would not surprise me if more roads go this route in the future.

[Xplorer]

C61,

You mean like the ML night ban?

That would mean there could be no fishing gear on the lake from 10pm-6am, meaning every porty, outfitter house, and wheelhouse would have to be off the ice/empty by 10pm??

Even I can't imagine that ever happening.

I'm thinking my opinion of 2/6 might be close. I would change the regs to say 11/15 to 1/1/16 to be 1 fish limit, and exclude the 'nothing over 26" for the entire year. NO fish cooking on the lake, period, like it was when it reopened.

URL is viewed (reviewed?) year-round. If more generous limits are warranted they can be implemented, like the reductions were this year.

Posted by "Xplorer" 2/06/2015:

"AS much as it might hurt, a 2 fish under 17" (no overs) with no fish preparation on the lake the rest of the winter season.

A 2 fish under 17" (with nothing over) from opener to June 30, and whatever regs would keep it under/at the safe allowable harvest for the remainder of the year."

[loadmaster]

This most likely for Kelly, could you explain what the agreement is once we hit are quota. Reading and trying to understand, have we reached are winter quota? What is supposed to happen if we reach or exceed it. Is it an immediate shut down or what. The only thought I would have if the winter quota is exceeded and it counts toward are summer quota than some type of an even lower limit needs to be implamented for winter. I do not ice fish URL but soft water is great I would hate to see my time limited because of over fishing in the winter.

[bturck]

walleye29us........where are your numbers coming from.......i have to see proof that any fish i released this year ere not healthy and took ogff like a shot and didn't end up tits up. none were gut hooked, if they had been i would have cut the line. none of them were out of the water for photo op shoots either.

your statement that catch and release is a far greater detrement to the lakes population than taking a twoo fish limit is non-sensical and without foundation and merit. you're probably theorizing that as soon as everone has their two fish limit they pack up and go home,. no further fishing for perch, northerns or crappies.....they're probably a very poor excuse for sportsman because a walleye just bit on their crappie rig and they had their limit on ice.

[walleye29us]

When people are catching 100 plus fish weekend after weekend,you cannot tell me that there isnt hooking mortality.

[bturck]

to that i could agree, especially gut hooked fis and a long forceps trying to jerk out a jig or hook. i think from reading this site for years that the greatrest majority of fisher people take great careof unhooking and releasing fish to remain healthy but the per centage you posted has no foundation. and not everyone fishing the lake is pulling a 100 fish per trip.

hooking mortality is factored into the harvest number, and im opinion it is rated high. i believe higher than actuality. so to solve the problem fro your perspective: all those w limit of walleyes should the eavevthe lake, and anyone caught releasing awalleye should be fined...???????