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New Regs?


Red Miller

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Just out of curiosity...how long have you fished the lake prior to buying a place?

Fair question... since around 2000. In the 1980s I was in grade school, the 1990s college and grad school. So, as soon as I could! Since then, it is the only place I fish. Man (White, Brown, Black, and Red) ruined/are ruining Mille Lacs. I am simply disgusted, the Red Team doesnt seem to give a rip.

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Smallmouth bass - given the catch and release ethic amongst bass anglers, is there really cause for concern in affecting the population? Keep in mind, I am a smallmouth angler.

What I do see is the potential for a big flood of money to come in from bass tournaments.

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I did a little reading this morning and found many reports of anglers coming into resort fish cleaning shacks with buckets of smallies. These were reports from very prominent guides and resort owners that are on the lake every day. The problem with how the DNR is handling smallies on Mille Lacs is they made it sound like smallies are the reason the walleyes are in demise and that in order to invigorate the walleye population the smallies must be eradicated from the system. It couldn't be farther from the truth as the fisheries biologists will tell you, the smallies are eating crayfish, not Y-O-Y walleyes. The huge imbalance of large walleye are eatin the small walleye. There is scientific evidence showing that there hasn't been a successful year class of walleye since 2008. A large majority of the young walleye are being cannibalized by the larger walleye. But lets jaunt point the finger at bass and pike and night fishing, and not the walleye hot grease release.

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I did a little reading this morning and found many reports of anglers coming into resort fish cleaning shacks with buckets of smallies. These were reports from very prominent guides and resort owners that are on the lake every day. The problem with how the DNR is handling smallies on Mille Lacs is they made it sound like smallies are the reason the walleyes are in demise and that in order to invigorate the walleye population the smallies must be eradicated from the system. It couldn't be farther from the truth as the fisheries biologists will tell you, the smallies are eating crayfish, not Y-O-Y walleyes. The huge imbalance of large walleye are eatin the small walleye. There is scientific evidence showing that there hasn't been a successful year class of walleye since 2008. A large majority of the young walleye are being cannibalized by the larger walleye. But lets jaunt point the finger at bass and pike and night fishing, and not the walleye hot grease release.

Very well said.

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Quote:
Mille Lacs always has been, always will be, and always should be managed for Walleyes!

He asserted, providing to rationale whatsoever other than that he's a walleye fisherman.

crazy

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I did a little reading this morning and found many reports of anglers coming into resort fish cleaning shacks with buckets of smallies. These were reports from very prominent guides and resort owners that are on the lake every day. The problem with how the DNR is handling smallies on Mille Lacs is they made it sound like smallies are the reason the walleyes are in demise and that in order to invigorate the walleye population the smallies must be eradicated from the system. It couldn't be farther from the truth as the fisheries biologists will tell you, the smallies are eating crayfish, not Y-O-Y walleyes. The huge imbalance of large walleye are eatin the small walleye. There is scientific evidence showing that there hasn't been a successful year class of walleye since 2008. A large majority of the young walleye are being cannibalized by the larger walleye. But lets jaunt point the finger at bass and pike and night fishing, and not the walleye hot grease release.

I know a lot of people who were bringing smallies in last year also. I fish the lake an average of 3 days a week during the open water season. My question for you is what is the difference between an imbalance of large walleye and imbalance of large smallmouth?

Both eat crayfish correct? Both eat perch correct? Why wouldn't both eat YOY walleye when the opportunity presents itself? Your logic make zero sense. Mille Lacs has an imbalance of large walleyes AND large smallmouth 2c

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There's plenty of research out there that indicates that smallies don't prey much on young walleye. Whatever solution to the walleye "problem" is, hurting the smallmouth fishing ain't it.

For starters:

http://www.sdstate.edu/nrm/outreach/upload/Wuellner_SMB-WAE.pdf

http://www.nrs.fs.fed.us/pubs/jrnl/2003/nc_2003_frey_001.pdf

https://www.uwsp.edu/cnr-ap/fac/Documents/Repp%20-%20Thesis.pdf

Here's a pretty relevant quote from the latter study:

"Perhaps the most relevant and recent study considered the potential for interactions between walleye and northern pike, muskellenge, smallmouth bass, and largemouth bass, and the impact these interactions may have had on walleye stocking (Fayram et al 2005). This study found no evidence of smallmouth bass affecting walleye."

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full-26683-43815-wellduh.jpg

full-26683-43820-wellduh2.jpg

This stuff is repeated in every study I've looked at. I'm sure somewhere out there is some research showing where smallies eat wallies - you can find anything if you look hard enough - but it's pretty clear that the body of evidence shows that smallmouth don't prey on walleyes, and don't compete with them for forage (at least not on a large enough scale to impact populations).

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Many can blame whatever for the loss of walleyes in the lake, many factors factor in to the lower eye populations.

let's talk fisherman, I once pre-fished with a guy who was going to fish a tiourny on this lake. We were out on the edge of a mud flat looking for larger fish and we found them. many boats there and as we left, they all sat there and kept cacthing the big girls in 28fow and throwing them back in the hot weather. We were there for boat 2 fish and mark the spot.

We went by there about 1 hour later and the same boats were still there catching and releasing big females. Sad part was, many were floating on the top of the water, guess the water temps were too high and after pulling them up from the depths, it was just too much for the fish, but, they sat there and continuted to boat and kill many nice females.

It's not all the DNR's fault, the netting or anything else. Plenty of blame to go around.

I always have to question why in the good years when one boats alot of fish, I never see a post about how well the DNR is managing the lake but as soon as the populations goes south, then it is all the DNR's fault.

Makes one wonder doesn't it?

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I did a little reading this morning and found many reports of anglers coming into resort fish cleaning shacks with buckets of smallies. These were reports from very prominent guides and resort owners that are on the lake every day. The problem with how the DNR is handling smallies on Mille Lacs is they made it sound like smallies are the reason the walleyes are in demise and that in order to invigorate the walleye population the smallies must be eradicated from the system. It couldn't be farther from the truth as the fisheries biologists will tell you, the smallies are eating crayfish, not Y-O-Y walleyes. The huge imbalance of large walleye are eatin the small walleye. There is scientific evidence showing that there hasn't been a successful year class of walleye since 2008. A large majority of the young walleye are being cannibalized by the larger walleye. But lets jaunt point the finger at bass and pike and night fishing, and not the walleye hot grease release.

That's just hearsay. The creel reports showed no significant harvest of smallmouth last year. I believe the estimate was around 2,000 pounds. That's a kick in the bucket compared to the population out there.

I highly doubt the new smallmouth regulations will reduce average size. Most smallmouth fisherman don't harvest smallmouth and most walleye fisherman release smallmouth. I'll keep some smallmouth but only those between 12-14 inches. Who wants to keep a 18 inch smallie for the frying pan? The lake can handle harvest of those smaller bass and it might actually increase growth rates due to less competition.

I doubt smallmouth eat many YOY walleye. They mainly eat crayfish. The problem is that on years of low forage levels (which has been the last couple years) are smallmouth reducing the secondary food source of walleyes? That is, when small perch are down walleyes will feed more heavily on crayfish, and with a higher abundance of smallmouth, there's less crayfish in the lake. In that scenario competition between the two species could be a problem.

Mille Lacs can only handle a certain biomass of predator fish. If smallmouth and pike increase, something has to decrease. Since walleye's are the most abundant predator, of course they will see a decline. You can't have historic highs of smallmouth and pike with high levels of walleyes. It's also possible that because of the decline in walleye levels, it gave the pike and smallmouth room to increase. Natural systems are very complex.

It's a bad situation for resorts but lets be real. They are making a living off a natural resource. Highs and lows come with the business. You can't cry foul when the resource is down for lost business. IT'S A NATURAL RESOURCE! When you try to make money off a natural system you have to understand the risks involved.

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Interesting that you guys are seeing/hearing about people keeping lots of smallies. I fish the lake a lot--I practically live up there for much of the summer--and I didn't see one person keep a bass while fishing in his own boat. I'm sure it happens, obviously, but I honestly don't remember seeing one bass cleaned or heading home in a livewell.

I also work on one of the launches in the summer as the "master baiter" (wish I had a dollar for each time a drunk guy told me that joke, thinking he was the first one). On the launch, I saw one kept bass all year, and that was in, I dunno, 30 trips.

So yeah, the smallie regs seem dumb/diversionary/idiotic/useless/pick your adjective, but in my experience at least, I haven't seen much evidence that the harvest of bass has increased significantly. I hope it stays that way.

Just my .02.

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As a bass fisherman, I'm not worried about the bass guys at all. The DNR could make the smallie limit 10 (like northerns) and we would throw them all back. I'm worried about non-bass fisherman turning to the smallies as an alternate meat source or to simply get them out of the lake to make way for the walleye rebirth. Last year's smallie regs made more sense because you could still harvest some smaller fish for the fry pan. In 2014, someone could keep a limit of five 18" fish and a 20". The 17-20" fish are what make this lake an elite smallmouth fishery.

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Bold changes were/are needed to restore the lake in the short term, because not enough was done to preserve the fishery in the long term, regardless of who we choose to blame. As much as I hate to see/feel change, bold change is needed. Winter spearing of pike on Millelacs? I never thought that I'd see it again. Not sure it will affect change the way we would like to see, but it is bold. Night ban is bold, although it is my favorite time to fish. Yep, it hurts, I don't like it, and yes, it is necessary. I am not even sure that this is bold enough. No tournaments would have been bold. I like a friendly wager on a day of fishing, but I think large tournaments are not a good idea on Mille lacs right now. No small walleyes would have been even bolder, but I like to eat walleye. No barbs is another bold move, but i lose walleyes on barbless hooks sometimes and I get mad when I lose a walleye. No overnight ice fishing next year would be bold. There is nothing I like better than ice fishing overnight in my permanent house, so is that off limits? Hurt too much? Yep, me too! Shutting down the fishery is bold. Maybe too bold? Maybe. I don't like any of these options, but I'm not sure if the lake will recover in short order without significant sacrifices. Which ones are you willing to accept? For the good of the lake, if your answer isn't anything and everything, then what are we talking about? This is my favorite lake in the world, my cabin sits on it, my traditions start and end at Mille lacs. Sacrifice hurts, losing this fine lakes best features hurts more. Whats O.K. to temporarily sacrifice, and what is not?

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As a bass fisherman, I'm not worried about the bass guys at all. The DNR could make the smallie limit 10 (like northerns) and we would throw them all back. I'm worried about non-bass fisherman turning to the smallies as an alternate meat source or to simply get them out of the lake to make way for the walleye rebirth. Last year's smallie regs made more sense because you could still harvest some smaller fish for the fry pan. In 2014, someone could keep a limit of five 18" fish and a 20". The 17-20" fish are what make this lake an elite smallmouth fishery.

After everyone's first smallmouth fry I suspect they'll either focus on NP or find another lake. What's nice about the expanded regs is that organizations like BASS will finally start looking at MN, which will bring more attention to the fishery and capture the younger audience.

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Mille lacs is not a trophy walleye fishery unless you consider 24 to 26 inch walleyes trophies.you just do not see 28 plus inch fish come out of there. Its a world class trophy fishery for bass and muskies however.

These changes I think are not going to achieve the desired result. How many years do we have to keep pounding on the same size structure fish that is such a small number of fish to begin with? Too many adult fish? Harvest some. I like the idea of keep what you catch and you are done.

People aren't going to leave the lake with buckets of bass. Just not going to happen.

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Good point tolle, bass tournaments could bring some cash back to the resorts and local businesses. Bass fishermen will spend money.

CaptainMusky, previous posts in this string said resorts reported quite a few smallies being brought in to filet last year.

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I like the idea of keep what you catch and you are done.

That does seem to make a lot of sense, but if larger fish were harvested, the poundage quota would be hit in what, a week or two? That might be best for the lake, but apparently the DNR, resorts, etc. want to avoid going to complete C&R for as long as possible.

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CaptainMusky, previous posts in this string said resorts reported quite a few smallies being brought in to filet last year.

yeah I can read. "Quite a few" as in specific ppl staying at a resort when the vast majority of the folks fishing the lake are not staying at one. Bass are not common table fare and they could increase the limit to 20 and you still wouldn't see hoards of folks hitting the lake for shore lunch.
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Good point tolle, bass tournaments could bring some cash back to the resorts and local businesses. Bass fishermen will spend money.

CaptainMusky, previous posts in this string said resorts reported quite a few smallies being brought in to filet last year.

Here a chance in a lifetime if resorters got going early and promoted the bass fishery. Tournaments etc.,special events etc..

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Can someone please explain how the heck hooking mortality has ANYTHING to do with this debacle?

If anything, it HELPS! Take away the large predators and you leave behind larger numbers of smaller fish.

Predator/prey imbalance is the cause of this and was perfectly predicted 12 years ago.

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It counts against the state's quota......and with some irony, was possibly as high, or even higher, as the bands take some years......well, assuming anyone was really counting.

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That might be best for the lake, but apparently the DNR, resorts, etc. want to avoid going to complete C&R for as long as possible.

What they are missing is that longer they wait the longer it will take for the lake to recover. Rip the bandaid off so it will be back to normal in four years. Instead we get these lame attempts that will not fix the lake for ten years.

Which hurts the resorts worse, four yeas off or ten years of fumbling? Seems like they can't see past the current season.

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Some of this is just natural with no good perch hatches in many years,now last year we get a real abundant year class,some of it will correct itself.

Yes northern pike and smallmouth over the past few years should of been managed the same as the rest of the state.

The changing weather climate and ecosystem,heavy angler pressure and more efficient anglers and netting put so many variables into the picture which makes it a very tough lake to manage with many critic knowing all the answers.

Look thru the history of Mille lacs it has its up and downs before in various ways,maybe not the same as now.

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Bold changes were/are needed to restore the lake in the short term, because not enough was done to preserve the fishery in the long term, regardless of who we choose to blame. As much as I hate to see/feel change, bold change is needed. Winter spearing of pike on Millelacs? I never thought that I'd see it again. Not sure it will affect change the way we would like to see, but it is bold. Night ban is bold, although it is my favorite time to fish. Yep, it hurts, I don't like it, and yes, it is necessary. I am not even sure that this is bold enough. No tournaments would have been bold. I like a friendly wager on a day of fishing, but I think large tournaments are not a good idea on Mille lacs right now. No small walleyes would have been even bolder, but I like to eat walleye. No barbs is another bold move, but i lose walleyes on barbless hooks sometimes and I get mad when I lose a walleye. No overnight ice fishing next year would be bold. There is nothing I like better than ice fishing overnight in my permanent house, so is that off limits? Hurt too much? Yep, me too! Shutting down the fishery is bold. Maybe too bold? Maybe. I don't like any of these options, but I'm not sure if the lake will recover in short order without significant sacrifices. Which ones are you willing to accept? For the good of the lake, if your answer isn't anything and everything, then what are we talking about? This is my favorite lake in the world, my cabin sits on it, my traditions start and end at Mille lacs. Sacrifice hurts, losing this fine lakes best features hurts more. Whats O.K. to temporarily sacrifice, and what is not?

Well said !!

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Two years ago only one smallie could be kept if it was over 21" or 23". Then last year the DNR allows six smallies under 21" to be kept. What kind of management plan goes from nothing to keeping six in one year? This dramatic turn around in my mind raises questions about the whole management plan for the lake by the DNR. Do the experts at DNR really know what they are doing? I like the plan where when you catch two you are done including tournaments. I am not familiar with how tournaments are run and if there is a difference in hooking mortality by tournament fisherman vs. fishermen like me that don't catch many but enjoy the lake nonetheless.

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Interesting that you guys are seeing/hearing about people keeping lots of smallies. I fish the lake a lot--I practically live up there for much of the summer--and I didn't see one person keep a bass while fishing in his own boat. I'm sure it happens, obviously, but I honestly don't remember seeing one bass cleaned or heading home in a livewell.

I also work on one of the launches in the summer as the "master baiter" (wish I had a dollar for each time a drunk guy told me that joke, thinking he was the first one). On the launch, I saw one kept bass all year, and that was in, I dunno, 30 trips.

So yeah, the smallie regs seem dumb/diversionary/idiotic/useless/pick your adjective, but in my experience at least, I haven't seen much evidence that the harvest of bass has increased significantly. I hope it stays that way.

Just my .02.

I do the same thing at one of the resorts, and I seen maybe 6 smallies get harvested from the launch and no northerns. I also check the cleaning shacks to see what others at the resort are doing and it is rare to see a smallie but I did see a stretch where a group took some small pike.

If you look at the post's thatoneguy has about smallies vs walleyes that explains the bass in a nutshell. That is the same data the DNR used to convince the resort owners to stock the lake in the first place, now they are showing us smoke and mirrors and they wonder why the public is losing faith in them.

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I can see why they would not allow harvesting fish over the 20" mark. It would be a disaster. The Hungry Hungry Hippo Fishing Armada would be up there in full force pulling every last fish out of there. Then there would be nothing.

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I can see why they would not allow harvesting fish over the 20" mark. It would be a disaster. The Hungry Hungry Hippo Fishing Armada would be up there in full force pulling every last fish out of there. Then there would be nothing.
If you are talking about 20" walleyes that is hogwash. Why? Because the harvest is limited to 41,000 pounds. Hit that, its OVER!

Since there are "an overabundance of adult fish" why not harvest some of them?

The one thing about harvesting only 18 to 20 fish is that since there are so few fish in that size range, they will not achieve the safe harvest limit very easily. Maybe that is their goal, but what happens in essence is you have a larger mortality number since people keep fishing trying to find 18 to 20 inchers.

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  • Your Responses - Share & Have Fun :)

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