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harvey lee

New AIS law

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harvey lee

There have been many post and thoughts on the new AIS laws to try and stop or slow the spread of this garbage in our lakes.

As most know, I have been very pro on the trying to stop or slow this stuff in our lakes and rivers which would benefit all of us who use the water and for the people who will also enjoy them in the future. I would say I believe we would all want our resources to stay as clean as possible for future generations.

I also realize that many are against this program for numerous reasons.

For those who are against this, what could the DNR try and do to stop this or at least slow the spread until they can come up with a solution to try and control or elimante this in our water?

I would rather not see this thread go the direction of, we do not like it or we do but, rather some suggestions on how to make it better.

If we could come up with a better solution for this, just maybe it could be presented to the DNR for a better way to solve this issue without spending as much money as it will cost with the program now.

lets here the suggestions on how to better the law now in place.

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Kyhl

I would like to see a greater presence of friendly DNR personnel randomly at the landings reminding people, inspecting boats, and writing tickets.

I also would like to seeing people pulled over that are in violation while driving down the road.

Stickers are a waste of money and effort. This is not kindergarten.

Mandatory roadside checks without probable cause are unconstitutional. That idea should be shut down before the state ends up wasting money in legal fees.

Write better laws that are more efficient. Both of these are a waste of money and effort.

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schmoe147

Kyhl +1.

that perfectly sums up what should be done instead of wasting money on a sticker.

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reinhard1

i think all checks [inspections] should be done at boat landings. especialy at lakes with invasives in them. although these random roadside checks will be a small part of the effort i also am against them. not because of them being allegedly unconstitutional, but because they are not neccessary if boats are checked at landings.

also i would like to see further research in finding ways to eliminate or control these species that are harmfull. i also would like to see more anglers calling their reps and voiceing their opinion to them. that is the only way, we , the anglers can be effective in particepating in future laws or regs. good luck.

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harvey lee

I would like to see a greater presence of friendly DNR personnel randomly at the landings reminding people, inspecting boats, and writing tickets.

Seems with this new law, they are trying to do just that.

I also would like to seeing people pulled over that are in violation while driving down the road.

That is part of the new law to stop people on the roAD AND CHECK THEM.

Stickers are a waste of money and effort. This is not kindergarten.

Mandatory roadside checks without probable cause are unconstitutional. That idea should be shut down before the state ends up wasting money in legal fees.

Write better laws that are more efficient. Both of these are a waste of money and effort.

That's exactly what I was asking, if you are thinking there is a better way and maybe there is, what would that be??

The reason for this post was to ask, what is a better solution to this, not why you do not like it.

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mnguy152

I think also maybe training the local police and state troopers on the rule to help with the enforcement.

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harvey lee

Kyhl +1.

that perfectly sums up what should be done instead of wasting money on a sticker.

With this new law, you are going to see more persoanll at the landings and inspections on the road. That is already planned to be done.

I think we have to get off the sticker as a reason not to try and control or stop the AIS.

I asked this question due to the fact that many are so against this program and believe it should not happen.

Like cancer, the research people have tried for years to try and find a cure for cancer or for that matter all of the dieases out there that will take ones life. No, they have not come up with every cure for every type cancer but they have come up with ways to extend ones life and cancers like breast cancer they have solved many issues.

The cancer is cure is like the AIS issue, it could take a long time to find the answers for a cure but since it takes as long as it does, does that mean we should not try?

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Tracker55

+2

Exactly

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DTro

I guess I would like to ask what is wrong with doing nothing? So far nothing has worked very well for AIS. Seems like the lakes that have Milfoil now outnumber the ones that don’t, yet not much has changed except that the reg book gets thicker and thicker and harder to understand each year. I remember when it used to be HUGE deal when milfoil was found in a lake, now it’s more like ho hum add another one to the list.

When we are talking about zebes specifically, history has shown that they infest a lake, overpopulate, and then plateau to a sustainable level and sometimes can even just disappear (as what appears to have temp happened on the St Croix).

Then you have the asian carp which seem to prefer river systems and we don’t even know for certain how far North they are willing to migrate. Yet there is this thought that if they get into the upper miss all our lakes will be ruined.

When it comes to govt programs, paranoia, uncertainty, and fear = money.

A do nothing attitude seems extreme, yet in the end could potentially have the same result as doing everything and as a bonus the funds saved could be filtered towards things that DO know make a difference, such as added enforcement, fish stocking, launch maintenance, etc.

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IcePro

When driving on the road there are there are speed limit signs posted to inform you what the speed limit is. If you are caught going over that speed limit the authorities has the right to pull you over and issue you a citation. Once you are pulled have they can now enforce other vehicle violations.

So here is my plan:

Within several miles of a boat access in both directions you have signs posted “STATE LAW” All weeds must be removed from your boat and drain plug remove while being transported.

There would also be a larger sign posted at the lake access when you leave.

Now if you are driving down the road and any authority sees that you have weeds on your trailer or your drain plug is not pulled the authorities can pull you over just like any other vehicle violation.

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Scott K

Maybe if we have the govt spend twice as much money on it, get more boat washing machines out there, and give us 2 stickers for our boat, that will work crazy

I agree with Dtro. The lakes that are infested, still have fish in them, they are actually thriving with fish. A new bedding area, hiding area for the young, and a new food source. If for some reason when the lake got infested, it was unfishable, or just un useable, then I would go to the extremes. But to waste a ton of money to slow the spread, in which sooner or later, it will be spread, seems like a waste of time and money to me.

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Juneau4

Ecosystems are allways changing. Some have been changed intentially by man through the introduction of sport game and fish. AIS has been determined to be like a hazardous waste. Education for the masses on how to prevent the spread of these is about the best you can do and that will not be enough, but at the present time its the best that can be done. Hope that people will follow the laws, clean the weeds, and drain the water. Can the spread be stopped? No, but it can be slowed down by the people themselves who use the water and maybe in the future something may be discovered that will destroy them and not do further damage.

Many boat user and other water craft users don't use them as much as most on here and a sticker may just be a good reminder for them.

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harvey lee

I guess I would like to ask what is wrong with doing nothing? So far nothing has worked very well for AIS. Seems like the lakes that have Milfoil now outnumber the ones that don’t, yet not much has changed except that the reg book gets thicker and thicker and harder to understand each year. I remember when it used to be HUGE deal when milfoil was found in a lake, now it’s more like ho hum add another one to the list.

When we are talking about zebes specifically, history has shown that they infest a lake, overpopulate, and then plateau to a sustainable level and sometimes can even just disappear (as what appears to have temp happened on the St Croix).

Then you have the asian carp which seem to prefer river systems and we don’t even know for certain how far North they are willing to migrate. Yet there is this thought that if they get into the upper miss all our lakes will be ruined.

When it comes to govt programs, paranoia, uncertainty, and fear = money.

A do nothing attitude seems extreme, yet in the end could potentially have the same result as doing everything and as a bonus the funds saved could be filtered towards things that DO know make a difference, such as added enforcement, fish stocking, launch maintenance, etc.

One could say the same thing with any disease or cancer. It takes a long time to find a cure. If cancer research would not be done, look at all the people that would have died right away. We would also never find a cure for anything if we did not try to find a cure. other option, do nothing and just let people die.

Do nothing simply is not going to help us all find anything other than just saying I quit.

Like the old saying goes

Quiters never win and winner never quit. So true.

I realize that a solution to this issue may never be found but I cannot seeing to say let's just quit trying. That will solve zero issues.

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Scott K

But no body is dieing! To compare people dieing, and some weeds getting in to a different lake, I think is quite farfetched, isnt it? Maybe the state should take the money it is wasting on this, and donate it to a cancer research center, I think it would be better off.

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harvey lee

Maybe if we have the govt spend twice as much money on it, get more boat washing machines out there, and give us 2 stickers for our boat, that will work crazy

I agree with Dtro. The lakes that are infested, still have fish in them, they are actually thriving with fish. A new bedding area, hiding area for the young, and a new food source. If for some reason when the lake got infested, it was unfishable, or just un useable, then I would go to the extremes. But to waste a ton of money to slow the spread, in which sooner or later, it will be spread, seems like a waste of time and money to me.

I know of a couple lakes that are so infested with milfoil that many will not even bother to fish it anymore. Washington by dassel has a toon of milfoil in it and I use to fish it but do not even bother any more due to all the milfoil.

The stickers as we all know are offered for people to become aware of these issues. Many people do not know anything about this new law or for that matter that they even need a decal as they do not bother to read the regs book. I have talked with 4 neighbors who had no clue what this was even about. No, the sticker will not cure a AIS issue but it will remind others to pull and put the plug back in thier boat and people will not have an excuse that they did not know about this. I am sure the cost for these decals is a very, very small percentage of the total cost for this program. Very small cost compared to the total cost.

I agree Scott that it will continue to spread as so many could care less and will continue to transport it and really do not care if they do. Are there other ways it's spread, well of course but that should not mean we just allow ourselves to continue to spread it all over.

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DTro

Well if you want to compare a lake ot river having some foreign snails or weeds in them to a human dying of cancer, go for it. I think its a bad analogy.

I would compare it more to putting up a fence on the mexican border or the war drugs. Both being money suck holes that haven't been very successful.

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Scott K

Well if you want to compare a lake ot river having some foreign snails or weeds in them to a human dying of cancer, go for it. I think its a bad analogy.

I would compare it more to putting up a fence on the mexican border or the war drugs. Both being money suck holes that haven't been very successful.

Maybe they should put stickers up on the border, that will work wink

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harvey lee

But no body is dieing! To compare people dieing, and some weeds getting in to a different lake, I think is quite farfetched, isnt it? Maybe the state should take the money it is wasting on this, and donate it to a cancer research center, I think it would be better off.

To explain for you, I realize noone is dying from AIS, the example was used to show that it takes time to find a cure for any issue. That includes AIS.

What would you do to cure this issue Scott or would you rather just let it go and let the chips fall where they may.

I thought I asked in my original post what some other cures were to help control this not we do not like it. I already knew that.

I guess I should have posted this in Silly Town as it seems a few only want to talk about do nothing. I simply cannot see how that will fix anything but maybe I am that out of touch.

I guess one has to be honest and simply say that there are a few who could care less about our natural resources and just let it all go to pot as there is nothing that will work and not even try.

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leech~~

.

When it comes to govt programs, paranoia, uncertainty, and fear = money.

So,you don't think the Asian bird flu, CWD, Lime disease, Mad Cow, etc, etc scares were real? shocked fear = money+yep!

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reinhard1

should we have done nothing to control the sea lamprey on Lake Superior? that is what i think Harvey is saying. the mill foil or zeb's or goby's may not be as harmfull as the lamprey was to the great lakes fishery, but we dont know that for sure. i agree the mill foil can have some benifits if it is limmited to a small area. i can imagine that would not be the case in shallow lakes were it takes over formerly fishable waters. we are in a control mode, not an elimination mode. we are not the only state with AIS problems. good luck.

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harvey lee

Well if you want to compare a lake ot river having some foreign snails or weeds in them to a human dying of cancer, go for it. I think its a bad analogy.

I would compare it more to putting up a fence on the mexican border or the war drugs. Both being money suck holes that haven't been very successful.

I think you know better and know exactly what I was saying.

I was making a comparison using the research end of it and compared research to finding a cure.

Understand now?

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Scott K

Tom I think further education to the public about it is a good thing. Signs at landings, the front cover of the boating/fishing regs, billboards. Or better yet, use the money to actually find a cure, something that will kill them. But the minute they start giving out tickets, and forcing us to put a stupid sticker on our boats, that will do nothing, and allowing them to pull us over because we are pulling a boat is bull carp! And that is where I draw the line. At that point it went from trying to slow the spread, to a money gathering, and it infringes on my rights.

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harvey lee

should we have done nothing to control the sea lamprey on Lake Superior? that is what i think Harvey is saying. the mill foil or zeb's or goby's may not be as harmfull as the lamprey was to the great lakes fishery, but we dont know that for sure. i agree the mill foil can have some benifits if it is limmited to a small area. i can imagine that would not be the case in shallow lakes were it takes over formerly fishable waters. we are in a control mode, not an elimination mode. we are not the only state with AIS problems. good luck.

Nail on head.

I was almost 100% positive that those who are so against this would not have another suggestion to help control this issue other than to say nothing will work. Or, that dumb sticker will do nothing.

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harvey lee

Tom I think further education to the public about it is a good thing. Signs at landings, the front cover of the boating/fishing regs, billboards. Or better yet, use the money to actually find a cure, something that will kill them. But the minute they start giving out tickets, and forcing us to put a stupid sticker on our boats, that will do nothing, and allowing them to pull us over because we are pulling a boat is bull carp! And that is where I draw the line. At that point it went from trying to slow the spread, to a money gathering, and it infringes on my rights.

I totally disagree with the fact that a ticket for non compliance will not help.

You get stopped and handed a ticket for a few hundred for no plug pulled, water in livewell or weeds on the trailer and my bet is the next trip you will comply.

Since a couple years back when they decided that the plugs needed to be pulled while the boat was in transport, take a look around and you will see how many will not comply. I was at a bait shop at Mille lacs and of the 10 boats in the lot, I believe I counted 1 plug pulled so it shows people will not comply unless they are forced to or fined.

If one is pulling thier boat with weeds hanging on it or the plug is in the boat, then I see no reason why one should not be stopped. You broke the law just like compliance with any other law.

So simply, pull the plug and clean off your weeds and I highly doubt that one will get stopped. Sure maybe a road check here or there.

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Scott K

So how much money will you justify that is enough to spend on this? Since it is a dire need to "slow it down" 1 billion? 50 billion? unlimited money? At what point doesnt it make sense? Just to slow it! We arent talking, preventing it, just slowing it.

We already have lake shore owners trying to close off public lakes to stop people from going on "THEIR" lake and spreading it. We are allowing the authority to pull us over, for no other reason then we are pulling a boat. We have the them crying for more money, because they dont have enough resources and staff to slow this down. Yet they arent very concerned about enforcing the present laws that were put in place to keep our resources to the level we want them.

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