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mainbutter

Twins and the almighty dollar

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mainbutter

I don't know much about baseball finances. It's such a macro level of expenses that it can be a bit confusing.

However I was just thinking about our team, and the related costs and revenues.

In particular, since Target Field was opened, haven't we had much greater stadium attendance (along with ticket prices) and all of the related food/merchandise/etc sales?

Would this in any way affect how much we could spend on players in coming years?

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Dylan33

It could, but it probaby won't. crazy

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Getanet

Mainbutter, here is a pretty interesting article about the topic. It was written before Target Field opened, but the analysis is teams with new stadiums generally increase their payroll, but it rarely leads to a better record:

http://www.baseballdailydigest.com/2010/02/12/new-stadium-does-not-guarantee-success/

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B. Amish

Would this in any way affect how much we could spend on players in coming years?

it did... see joe mauer.

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Steve Foss

Getanet, that was an interesting article. Thanks for sharing it. smile

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Getanet

Happy to share it Steve. It's also interesting to note that the Twins are still considered by most to be a small market team - both nationally and locally. But their team payroll has actually jumped by leaps and bounds over the past few years. USA Today lists MLB team payroll and you can sort by years. This year we had the 9th highest payroll in all of MLB and the 5th highest in the American League. Here's how we ranked in previous years:

http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/salaries/team/2011

2008: 25th

2009: 24th

2010: 10th

2011: 9th

Even with the new stadium revenues the Twins must be approaching their their spending limit. I don't expect them to make any major moves this off season.

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Big Tom

Even with the new stadium revenues the Twins must be approaching their their spending limit. I don't expect them to make any major moves this off season.

I hope you're wrong and $35M comes off the books by saying goodbye to Delmon, Nathan, Cuddy and Kubel.

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zamboni

Everyone says that, Getanet that we have moved up so far, now we're #9 in payroll. Take out the overpriced catchers salary and we go way back down into the 20's again. Those numbers are very misleading.

"The Twins have spent money" is what everyone is saying.

Yep, on ONE guy.

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B. Amish

they spent quite a bit on capps amd pavano

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mrklean

and we have pavano around for 1 or 2 more years?

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pikestabber

Take out the overpriced catchers salary and we go way back down into the 20's again. Those numbers are very misleading.

Not very misleading at all...many teams could dump their top salaried player and fall way back in the payroll dept. We are not the only team overpaying a player right now!

ChiSox: Peavy @ $16 million, Rios @ $12.5 million, Dunn @ $12 million (ouch!)

There are examples on every single team, some nearly as egregious as Joe Mauer (like a $26,187,500 salary for Vernon Wells and his .203 average and 43 RBIs...)

My point over all is, we have nearly the same record as the Royals and they pay around $76,000,000 less for players than we do. We are tied into some guys that are sinking the ship (think Garnett with the T'Wolves all over again). I'm not saying the answer is to trade Joe Mauer, I wouldn't want to trade him, but in order to be competitive we will need to both develop talent from within the organization and make some tough cuts to get other guys in here that can help the team for less money. It CAN be done. Our best bullpen guy by a country mile is Glen Perkins (and he is only making $700,000 this year...that, however, will change quickly). We are in a tough spot, but there is a winning combination of players out there that can fit within our payroll. Getting them all together will take time, carefully conceived transactions, a bit of luck and a small miracle. With Bill Smith at the helm, however, we will have to change that to a HUGE miracle.

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Hoyt4

Twins are one of the top money teams in the American league. Not just because of mauer they were up there two years ago and last season before Mauers contract. They will need to keep spending and making better free agent pick ups to get out of the frist round.

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Getanet

Everyone says that, Getanet that we have moved up so far, now we're #9 in payroll. Take out the overpriced catchers salary and we go way back down into the 20's again. Those numbers are very misleading.

"The Twins have spent money" is what everyone is saying.

Yep, on ONE guy.

I'm not sure how it's misleading. We signed him and he's on the team. He counts against our payroll. It's not football and we can't just cut him and save payroll. We can question the strategy behind what we're spending and who we're spending it on, but there's no doubt the Twins have opened the checkbook significantly in recent years.

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B. Amish

Not very misleading at all...many teams could dump their top salaried player and fall way back in the payroll dept. We are not the only team overpaying a player right now!

ChiSox: Peavy @ $16 million, Rios @ $12.5 million, Dunn @ $12 million (ouch!)

There are examples on every single team, some nearly as egregious as Joe Mauer (like a $26,187,500 salary for Vernon Wells and his .203 average and 43 RBIs...)

My point over all is, we have nearly the same record as the Royals and they pay around $76,000,000 less for players than we do. We are tied into some guys that are sinking the ship (think Garnett with the T'Wolves all over again). I'm not saying the answer is to trade Joe Mauer, I wouldn't want to trade him, but in order to be competitive we will need to both develop talent from within the organization and make some tough cuts to get other guys in here that can help the team for less money. It CAN be done. Our best bullpen guy by a country mile is Glen Perkins (and he is only making $700,000 this year...that, however, will change quickly). We are in a tough spot, but there is a winning combination of players out there that can fit within our payroll. Getting them all together will take time, carefully conceived transactions, a bit of luck and a small miracle. With Bill Smith at the helm, however, we will have to change that to a HUGE miracle.

+1

and bill smith needs to stop cornering the market on minor league pitchers with era's over 5.

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Brian-Mn

Lets have a show of hands who believed the Twins pitching would be good at the beginning of the year.

Lets have a show of hands who thought the 3 & 4 hitters would have a combined 45 rbi at this time.

Lets have a show of hands on who thought the disabled list would include every single position player this year except Valencia.

Pee and moan about the payroll all you want but the payroll isn't the problem.

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Getanet

It's too bad the Twins can't get a do over on this season. It had so much potential with our star players hitting their primes our pitching staff being seasoned veterans by now - at least the starters.

Regardless of injuries, the starting pitching staff was the biggest disappointment to me. All of them except Duensing have pitched in the big leagues for long enough now that they shouldn't have these streaks of pitching terribly. Bad games here and there are a given, but they shouldn't be having bad months.

There's always next year!

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Brian-Mn

On a good staff...........

Pavano is a 2

Duensing is a 3

Baker is a 2

Blackie is 5 or long relief

Liriano is a .............well, I can't figure it out either.

Middle relief in the beginning, in the middle and now, was never going to be good. It's a bunch of Triple A pitchers.

Nathan, Capps, Perkins, night in and night out is all Gardy had to work with. The rest were just bodies.

Now, where are you going to fix that mess? Payroll? What, ya want Crain at 3+ million?

The 2011 formula was out slug everybody and get a few quality starts from all the starters. Nobody knew the offense would tank. Nobody knew Blackie would have 4 wins. Nobody knew Liriano would continue to suck, Nobody knew Baker was more fragile then a Barbie doll. Everybody knew Pavano would take the ball every 5th day and wouldn't complain about defense (pathetic) or lack of offense. (obvious)

Want to lay blame? Blame the lack of offense from Young, Mauer, Morneau and to a small extent Kubel.

Need to lay more blame? How about Nishioka not only not being able to hit, but he can't knock down a beach ball on defense.

The only positive to 2011 is it's John Gordons last year.

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greebs

kubel was having a great season until he got injured. likely would have deserved to be our lone all star representative at the pace he was hitting. without his strong start, the team would be 25 games under .500 by now.

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pikestabber

On a good staff...........

Pavano is a 2

Duensing is a 3

Baker is a 2

Blackie is 5 or long relief

Liriano is a .............well, I can't figure it out either.

Middle relief in the beginning, in the middle and now, was never going to be good. It's a bunch of Triple A pitchers.

Nathan, Capps, Perkins, night in and night out is all Gardy had to work with. The rest were just bodies.

Now, where are you going to fix that mess? Payroll? What, ya want Crain at 3+ million?

The 2011 formula was out slug everybody and get a few quality starts from all the starters. Nobody knew the offense would tank. Nobody knew Blackie would have 4 wins. Nobody knew Liriano would continue to suck, Nobody knew Baker was more fragile then a Barbie doll. Everybody knew Pavano would take the ball every 5th day and wouldn't complain about defense (pathetic) or lack of offense. (obvious)

Want to lay blame? Blame the lack of offense from Young, Mauer, Morneau and to a small extent Kubel.

Need to lay more blame? How about Nishioka not only not being able to hit, but he can't knock down a beach ball on defense.

The only positive to 2011 is it's John Gordons last year.

So, overall, you're pretty happy with the team, then? whistle

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Brian-Mn

So, overall, you're pretty happy with the team, then? whistle

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zamboni

I never said cut Mauer, just once you remove his salary we are way back down. Yes, every team has some high priced talent, but noone has that much wrapped up in a guy that has a penthouse suite on the DL. Yes, he lives on the DL. The first basemens his neighbor.

I like those 2 guys, but man up. I would play in a wheelchair if I got paid that much money to play a game.

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Harmonica Bear

isn' this when you need to have a Torii to bloody somebody's nose? Worked once for Morneau....

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Dave S

If all we're looking for is more digits in the the win column, maybe we should quit the musical pitchers game and bring a coach in who can straighten out the mechanics of the pitching......Yes I'm saying "send Rick Anderson packing". We keep rotating pitchers but nothing seems to improve much. IMO, the talent is there. We just need a change in the coaching dept.

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