If you had $2k to spend...

[fishuhalik]

...on a long-range deer rifle, what would you buy? A good friend of mine has a particular stand on his land that overlooks an old beaver pond, and he's had to pass on 3 really nice (he claims b&c) bucks that have come in that were about 600 yards out. He's looking to buy a new gun and has around $2k to spend. He's gonna be using it exclusively for whitetail. He's shot my 25-06 and likes it, but I'm not sure if it has quite enough knock-down power at that range if you were to hit a shoulder. Ethicaly speaking I have no doubt in his shooting abilities, he's a heck of a shot and has built shooting supports on the stand. What would you do?

[Gordie]

270 weatherby mag

custom all the way with a .308 norma mag

Just saying what I would spend my money on

You could do that shot with a host of different rifles,cailibers but its not a shot I would take unless totally confindent in my gun or my shooting skills and the best way to achive those is practice,practice, practice and even then I would practice some more.

Personally I think I would try and get a stand closer to those big bucks even if you could cut that distance in half its still a long shot.

[picksbigwagon]

in another thread someone brought up a 30-378 weatherby mag. which I had never heard of but after looking it up and looking at the ballistics and energy of this round, that would be a good choice as well. Problem would be ammo, it's not cheap, infact it was about 140 bucks for a box of 20. If your buddy reloads, it would be cheaper, way cheaper. The round was designed to be a 1000yard competition round but with hunting loads it is a long range lazer beam.

Something not mentioned yet is optics. He is going to want some good glass on tip of it and that would run 500-1K......

There are many long range calibers out there, in fact there is one hunting show that glorifies the idea of long range shooting (600 yards and more on elk and deer) Specialized rifles with corresponding scopes and custom ammo. I think elwood is right, maybe get new stands built a little closer and hunt them only when the wind allows it...get an old canoe and leave it out there for the season.

[fishuhalik]

Personally I think I would try and get a stand closer to those big bucks even if you could cut that distance in half its still a long shot.

He would if he could, but the stand is set right in the middle of the dam on the edge. 600 yards to the west, 500 to the east, and 300 to the south. And the deer come out from about 50 different spots. I've hunted the spot once and scouted it with him a few times. He's set up about as good as he possibly can.

I'm not wondering quite as much for caliber, there's a few dozen that do basically the same job, more on what kind of setup (optics, barrels, etc.) you all would go with. IMO caliber is extremely subjective

[SmilinBob]

I know I'll hear about this, but my father-in-law has a DPMS AR-10 in .308 with a 24" heavy barrel, it will put the whole mag in an 8" plate at 500 yards, he has a better Nikon scope, can't remember which model right now. He added a JP trigger and the whole package was right in the $2000 range. Another caliber to take a serious look at for long range is the .260 Remington, it is the choice caliber at most NRA long range events, and you can get an AR platform in it too. If you are not ready for the modern sporting rifle platform take a look at the Tikka, Weatherby, or Savage Long Range Hunter line and put the extra $$ toward optics and lots of practice rounds, some nicly worked hand loads in the chosen caliber will only help the case for accuracy.

[picksbigwagon]

Oh Man, the AR 10......Smilinbob is right, in fact if I had to do it over again, I would have gone the AR 10 route vs. my AR 15.......So many options out there, Spend your buddy's money wisely......

[HunterLee]

7mm built with a custom barrel of his choice on the a remington or savage action, with a high quility scope. A leupold or ziess with a 6-20. Alot of trigger time and a solid rest. Unless he sights his gun in for the shot his expects he will need a scope with a turret also to make windage and elevation changes. To much for a whitetail gun.

Or just move to 200yds of the best spot and hope for the best. Anyone who sets up with a minimum shot of 5-600yds needs more than a new gun, maybe a rangefinder also.

[HunterLee]

He does know 600yds is roughly a half mile right? Where i hunt we have mile squares so sit in the middle and shoot towards the edges it will be closer.

[walleye365]

Id stick with the 25-06 it has enough 1220 ft/lbs at 400yrds and focus on the scope with all these ballistic scopes out there now. Then shoot shoot and shoot again id even get my heart rate up by running around the truck or something then shoot cause when the big one stepes out its goin to get the blood pumpin.

[RumRiverRat]

LaRue Tactical Stealth OBR (Optimized Battle Rifle) Complete 7.62 NATO Rifle 20" Barrel

Effective Range 800 meters.

The base model is 2,995, but if you are spendy 2000 what is another $995.

[paceman]

He should just add more stands. Hopefully the deer come out close to the one he is sitting in. Or get a buddy to hunt with and cover the area.

[fishuhalik]

Oh Man, the AR 10......Smilinbob is right, in fact if I had to do it over again, I would have gone the AR 10 route vs. my AR 15.......So many options out there, Spend your buddy's money wisely......

it is nice when you're working with someone else's money. i just told hime i'd post on here and see what kinda input i'd recieve.

I haven't shot the ar10 at all, spent a very limited amount of time with a modified ar15 recently at a prairie dog field and it was an absolute pleasure to shoot. i never even considered it.

for those of you that have actually held one to your shoulder, are they honestly comparable to a good bolt at longer distances? it's probably just my stuck-in-the-old-school mentality but i just can't wrap my head around having a consistantly accurate long-range sporting rifle. although, come to think of it, it would be nice to be able to throw out a follow up shot or two at those distances.

[fishuhalik]

So I did a little reading on the ar-10 and it sounds like there's several manufacturers. wikipidia listed these : DPMS LR-308, KAC SR-25, Rock River Arms LAR-8, ArmaLite Inc., American Spirit Arms ASA .308, Fulton Armory Titan, LWRC's R.E.P.R., LaRue Tactical's OBR, RND Manufacturing's "The Edge" and the German Oberland Arms OA-10.

Which of these have you shot or know someone that has one? Sounds like there's quite a bit to choose from. Sorry for all the questions, now I'm kinda thinking I need a new rifle...

Oh, and one more thing. These all shoot standard .308 rounds, right? I wouldn't need a special handload or $80/box loads?

[picksbigwagon]

I own an olympic arms ar15, and absolutely love it. DPMS is a MN company and they make AR10's in more than the standard 308 configuration. AR10 is based on longer cases like the 308. the 260 rem. mentioned earlier is available in the ar10 by dpms, as well as other calibers. The guy I bought my AR from is located up in the Bemidji area, his name is Mike Milli and is known on AR forums as Dtech, his company is Dedicated technologies and he does great work with this format of firearms. Smilingbob is also a sponsor here and he can help you out as well. I am not sure what the wait time is currently for AR10's, I know a couple of years ago, it was a longer wait due to the demand for any AR weapon.

I would put my AR with a bull barrel up against anyone's hunting rifle. The ammo is use is stuff I reload but it shoots store bought ammo quite well too.

[fishuhalik]

Thanks for all the info guys! Smilinbob, I maybe sending some business your way. I haven't talked to my buddy yet, but I think I might be able to talk him into a sporting rifle. If not him, I may be getting a hold of you in the future. Gosh I would absolutely love to have one of these rifles. I can't imagine the look on my dad's face if I pulled an "assault rifle" out of the case opening morning!

One more question (sorry for all the questions, you guys really have my curiousity pinged). How difficult is it to have 2 different recievers that are interchangeable? Say, a 7.62 to a 5.56? I'm pretty sure I've heard of guys doing that with ar-style weapons. When I go prairie dog hunting I've always used my uncles guns, and it would be great to have my own .223 to carry out there, not to mention just being able to spend time on the range to get familiar with the weapon with much cheaper ammunition. It'd also be easier to get the mrs. to along with it if I could explain that I can use it as multi-tool.

[Farley]

Watched a show on one of the hunting channels a few weeks ago and they were taking down elk at 1000 yards with a .338 lapua and some pretty nice optics. Doesnt even seem sporting to me but to each their own. Get a nice scope, maybe even get that first, then see what you have left for a rifle. .308 is a great round.

[SmilinBob]

come on up to the shop in Becker, I'm attached to a retail shop that specializes in these style guns, and the guys that work in there are experts in them having come from a major manufacturer. We carry nearly all makes and models and have an excellent selection in many calibers. The AR platform will hold the long range consistiency shot after shot too, and the follow up is light years faster than any bolt, and as with the AR-15 there is very little recoil and you're not far off on that follow up.

[picksbigwagon]

Fish, if you are thinking of a .223 upper, you are looking at an AR15, if you are thinking 260 or 308 for deer, you will need and AR 10. the uppers are not interchangeable onto the lowers. They are sepereate rifles. Now you can go with WSSM calibers taht will work in the AR15 format but you can't put a AR10 upper on an AR15 lower reciever or vice a versa

[HooknHorns]

Just a question since assult rifles were brought up and thats the route I would go. Dont you need a handgun permit or something like that?

[fishuhalik]

So i just talked to my buddy and he doesn't think a 7.62 has enough knock-down power at those ranges to be effective...I told him he's crazy but can one of you tell me the ballistic differences at those ranges between say a 7mm-08 and the 7.62? I only have internet here at work and any site I tried to look up with ballistics info is blocked.

[Farley]

7.62 is pretty much a .308.

[Ufatz]

Find a good ballistics table. I don't believe this is a correct statement.

[Tator2k]

Make sure he's taking about 7.62 x 51 NATO (Similar to .308) instead of 7.62 x 39 Russian used in AK47 and SKS.

My choice would be a JP Rifles customized Remington 700 in 7mm RUM.

[fishuhalik]

per wikipidia:

Although not identical, the 7.62×51mm NATO cartridge is similar enough to the commercial .308 Winchester that the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI) considers it safe to fire the NATO round in weapons chambered for the commercial round.

[Farley]

from what I can tell a 7mm-08 has slightly less energy at 600 yds than a .308. A .308 is close enough to a 7.62 to use it as comparison I would think.

if you have email I can email you a spreadsheet with a bunch of .308 round data.

[Ufatz]

Make sure he's taking about 7.62 x 51 NATO (Similar to .308) instead of 7.62 x 39 Russian used in AK47 and SKS.

My choice would be a JP Rifles customized Remington 700 in 7mm RUM.

Yes. Let's try to keep references to 7.62 clear as the 7.62X39 is no comparison to a .308. That is what I was getting at earlier. Probably should have expanded my statement more.

[Tator2k]

I won't use a .308 at that range for hunting anyway. The drop is huge.

Can it be done? Yes. It's not the right tool.

I wouldn't use most of the standard calibers mentioned here for over a 300 yd shot.

Shooting steel or paper targets is one thing but to retain the knockdown and kill power is another.

[fishuhalik]

I won't use a .308 at that range for hunting anyway. The drop is huge.

After doing the right research, there's no way a .308's gonna work. There's around 50" of drop at 600 yards, way too much since he also gets alot of close shots there too, under 100 yards.

What do you fellas know about the .257 weatherby mag? Sounds like a heck of a round. From what I read on wikipidia, it's based off a necked-down .375 h&h mag. 200-300 more fps than my 25-06 w/ 115 gr. noslers, and similar energy to a 30-06. This thing really has my curiousity pinged.

Also, he was telling me about the lazzaroni bullets, sounds like a heck of a round! Ever know someone that's shot one?

[Gordie]

.308 has milatary back ground and has been know to reach out and get the job done at distances farther than 600 yards

257 Weatherby Mag is a awsome round and you dont have to spend a fortune on this gun either the Weatherby Vanguard in that cailiber has great reveiws. Its one of the best out of the box guns around for under 600.00 bucks at least the last time I checked that gun was priced under 600.

If your going to plan on shooting those distances I would build a bullet for that also

Good luck to your friend in what ever he chooses

[slimngrizzly]

All seems like too much math and physics for me! Theres more ways to kill a big deer than counting on a 1/2 mile plus shot. Im sure there are plenty of calibers cabable of it... but is he?