Lake Vermilion Fishing Q&A

[jonesen]

Ace you said

Quote:

the Muskies will moderate into a typical Muskie lake

Do you think the gold old days are behind us or is it going to get better in the next few years.

[guideman]

Right now there are still a lot of big fish from those early stockings in the 90's that are reaching their maximum age. How long they will survive is anyone quess. I would think that alot depends on just how well they are reproducing naturaly combined with the stocking efforts by the DNR. It appears that the east end population has been doing pretty well spawning naturaly. The west end however has very little natural reproduction according to the DNR. Stocking numbers may be reduced in the future however that is just a guess, I don't know that for sure.

The important thing is that right now, Lake Vermilion is one of the best "Big Fish" destinations on the planet and that won't go away any time soon. Some years will be better than others but overall we still have a pretty good chance at catching a Muskie when you go out. There is also an above average chance that the fish you catch will be a trophy size Muskie(Over 50 inches). Angling pressure is always a factor as well as the weather but I had one of ny best seasons ever last summer, numbers wise. We also caught several fish over 50 including a 54.5 x 26" beauty that tipped the scales at about 49lbs.

Is the ice gone yet??

"Ace"

[jonesen]

That's good to here about the muskie, a 49 pounder is one heck of a fish, what time of year was that caught?

[guideman]

We caught that fish on 9/11. It was a cold windy day with a major front moving though at about 9:30am. We boated the fish at 9:15am, just ahead of the front. We had fished all day the previous day and had only seen one slow follow. In the 30 minutes before the front passed we raised 9 fish and boated two of them. Just shows you how important it is to be on the water fishing when things are happening and they start moving.

"Ace"

[guideman]

Hey Ya'll,

There must be some more questions out there for me to answer. It's only 91 days until the open water fishing opener. Muskie, Pike, Walleyes, Large and Smallmouth bass, I do it all guys. It really helps to talk about fishing, it's been warm every day since I made this post. See how powerful it is to talk fishing. It can change the world!!!

"Ace"

[Steve Foss]

Yellow perch, this time. Anecdotally, and from comments I've heard from some DNR folks, it looks like the rusty crayfish boom has been at least partly responsible for the increased size of perch on the lake. I don't know if you or most anyone targets perch on V at this point, but there seem to be greater numbers and bigger size, at least according to what I'm hearing from walleye anglers who are happening into the perch.

There are folks who will travel a LONG way to get into 12-14 inch perch. Do you think V is becoming a viable jumbo destination?

[delcecchi]

Last year we talked about northerns on the west end. I need to review that thread, but any other tips would be helpful.

The in-fisherman folks like doug stange keep pushing jigs with swimbaits. I have tried them some, and other than about a 42 inch musky two years ago I haven't had much luck. What has been your experience?

[DaveSorensen]

Hey Ace,

I know that there are some people who target smallmouth on Vermilion. Vermilion is a destination for walleye anglers and muskie fanatics. Why do you think there aren't a lot more people that come here to just fish for smallmouth? I guess I'm amazed at the world class fishery we have for smallmouth and really based on the number of people that are in the store so few really are looking at that fishery. I can't imagine a lot of other areas that consistenly produce the numbers and size of smallmouth or maybe I'm just naive to the other bass fisheries, I know watching fishing shows on TV the bass that they catch don't seem to be anything near what Vermilion produces.

[guideman]

Hey Del,

For me personally throwing a spinnerbait is the most effective way to catch Pike on this lake east or west. There will be days when other baits will be hot and catch more fish however, day in day out there is nothing that catches more Pike for me than a willow blade spinnerbait. Almost without exception most of the Big Pike I get are taken on 3/8 to 3/4 oz spinnerbaits. By Big I'm talking 35 inches or better and lots of 30 inch plus as well.

Dave,

I have no idea why there aren't more Smallmouth anglers targeting Vermilion. I'll never understand why more local don't take advantage of this exceptional fishery. I think lifetime Walleye fishermen get used to using livebait and the thought of casting just doesn't appeal to them I guess. It's the same way with the Largemouth we have here. It is the most under utilized fishery on Vermilion. Yea you'll see guys fishing for them on the west end but it's really small numbers compared to all the Walleye fishermen. Both species are at peak numbers right now and they are really easy to locate and catch with a little exoerience. Even during the best times of the season I rarely see more than one or two boats targeting Smallmouth when I'm out there and I guess I'm OK with that, it just leaves more of them for me.

"Ace"

[guideman]

Hey Del,

The soft plasics like the swimbaits you see them using on Tv are great baits. However there are always peak times when they work best. Summertime Pike like to hold in deeper water, many of the largest fish are holding on deeper rock structures like mainlake points and deeper breaks off of main lake islands and deep saddles. These are places and situations where the swimbaits really shine, same with deper weed lines and shoreline breaks. I like to jig them over deep humps and the tips of points during the summer however I will alway go to a spinnerbait when water temps are still cool in the shallows. It's just a better choice in my book. Early summer or cool water conditions always favor a spinnerbait in my opinion. Not that you can't catch a Pike during that same period with a swimbait, I just think you'll do better with a spinnerbait. JMHO.

"Ace"

[guideman]

Hey Steve,

You seldom see anyone targeting Perch however there are a lot of anglers that will take them when they are fishing for Walleyes. Vermilion was never known as a Jumbo Perch destination in the past. Oh you'd get one every now and then that went 12 inches or so but it wasn't very common. The rustys have changed all of that in recent years. Spring and fall are the very best times of the season to get on big numbers of these fish but they will bite all season long. During spring and fall they will typically be mixed right in with the Walleyes and you can really take adbvantage of that. I just use jigs tipped with minnows during those peak times and we do very well.

In the summer time you may have to work a little harder but they are still there.

Unfortunately although angler harvest numbers have remained about the same, Perch numbers have fallen a bit over the last couple of years. It hasn't been a huge dip in the population but none the less their numbers have dropped. It could be a result of the same poor spring hatches we had on the Walleyes a few years ago but the DNR is keeping an eye on it. Perch are a favotite food of Cormorants and their numbers have be on the rise on Vermilion in the last several years.

"Ace"

[Esox_Magnum]

How does the moon phase affect the muskie fishing on V, and what do you feel is the best phase, weather permitting of course.

[guideman]

Hey esox,

I think way to much emphasis is put on moon phase. It's just a small piece of the overall puzzle and no one thing will assure you of catching a Muskie. Moon rise and set times are more important in my estimation, than which phase the moon happens to be in. Not that I don't get a little cranked up when we are approching a full or new moon phase. I however get more excited when I know that we will be in a steady weather pattern or infront of a major change in the weather. I guess if I had to pick it would be the full moon. Historicaly I have done much better a day or two ahead of the moon than during or after the full moon. In my experience the weather overrules all the other factors. Nothing will kill a moon phase like a mid summer Canadian cold front. Almost all of the largest fish I or my clients have caught have come during steady weather(regardless of moon phase) or right before a major weather change.

"Ace"

[Stizo]

Hi Ace,

Still wondering if you have any thoughts on why DNR regs dictate that SM Bass are restricted to C & R only from Sept 17th thru Feb 27th and not when they're on the nests and vulnerable during the spring / early summer spawning period. In your opinion, is their some reason to suggest SMB are even more vulnerable to harvest during fall / winter? I don't eat em anyway but know that some do and this reg just seems odd and contrary to what one would think should be.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks,

Stizo

[jonesen]

Stizo

I think the reason bass season is cpr after the middle of Sept. is during the cooling & cold water period bass tend to school up, I think the DNR feels that a meat hunters could clean up on these large schools.

I THINK

[delcecchi]

Do you really want the SMB season to be closed until mid July?

[guideman]

I think Joensen hit it on the head. Smallmouth bass move into their wintering areas very early when water temps start to drop below 55 degrees. They generally school up with fish the same size so a lot of 3 and 4 pound fish could be taken out of one location very easily. That bite last a long time and meat hunters could totally wipe out a local Bass population.

Typically most of the bass taken in the spring during the spawn are males. Sure there will be some big females as well but their time on the bed is very short. It may only last a few hours and rarely more than a day or two. Therefor they are not as vulnerable in the spring as they are in the fall to being over fished. If an angler desides that they want to eat a Smallmouth, taking a few 12" to 14" males won't have any impact on the population as a whole.

The only part of Minnesota that opens early for Bass is the northeast corner of the state and believe me, fishing pressure in this part of the state for either species of Bass is minimal in the spring and early summer. I think you'll also find that most Bass anglers that take advantage of the early season are C&R guys that wouldn't dream of killing a bass of either species.

"Ace"

[guideman]

Hey guys, I'm kinda surprised that nobody has ask any questions about Walleyes yet.

Especially after one of the toughest bites we have had in a number of years here on Vermilion. I do enjoy Smallmouth bass and Muskies more, however I do still fish for Walleyes and I have won the "Vermilion Walleye classic" 3 times. So ask away you Walleye anglers out there.

"Ace"

[LunkerBaitCo]

I have a walleye question for everyone...what is the best artificial presentation for walleyes in the early season?

[SkunkedAgain]

I'll ask: What's the best strategy/presentation for walleye during the peak of summer heat, such as a 90 degree day with all sun, no clouds, and no wind?

(it feels good to think of what a day like that feels like!)

[FishinCT]

We are planning on getting a cabin up there this summer, but due to my job I won't be able to use it until September/October. I have never fished up there after about mid August, so I'm wondering about the walleyes and muskies that time of year. Depths, patterns, presentation etc. I would say bass too but you seem to have covered that in length already.

Thanks in advance and this has been a helpful thread already!

[guideman]

I have found a number of good presentations that don't include any livebait. The one I usally start with is a minnow style jerkbait/crankbait. A jig and grub or a small lizard also work well when pitched to specific locations or dragged along the bottom. The new gulp products can at times be very effective but typically when Walleyes are willing to hit soft plasitcs, the brand name isn't really an issue.

"Ace"

[guideman]

The fall Walleye bite on Vermilion is typically the best action of the season. it is primarily a jig and minnow bite however they will also take a lindy rig or even trolling crankbaits can be very effective. Once water temps start to fall they will start to bunch up in deeper water off of mainlake points and midlake rock structures. Typically the sharpest vertical drop on the structure will hold the most active fish. Deep holes ajacent to main lake islands are also good locations in the fall. Slow, vertical presentations are a must to get the maximum action in the cold water period. By deeper water I'm talking 20 to 40ft, with the prime depth between 25 and 35ft. The later it gets in the fall the better the action gets.

Fall Muskies are a different matter. They will typically be found in shallower water. Not so much in early fall but once water temps fall below 50 degrees they will start moving in to feed on spawning Cisco's and whitefish. You will often see them porposing right on the surface when the spawn is on. Otherwise look for big poods of baitfish staging off the first break preparing to move up for the spawn.

Trolling becomes an important technique in the fall however you can still get them casting. I throw a lot of big baits in the fall, primarily cranks and gliders but I also like to throw big hair when the time is right. Don't overlook a topwater in the fall, just because it's cooled off it doesn't mean they won't blast a surface bait.

"Ace"

[Parker]

Walleye Q's

Post-spawn, as fish begin to migrate towards their summer locations, how do you target them? Are you jigging or rigging during this phase? Do you move around until you see them on your locator or are you targeting specific types of structure?

How do you target them during the mayfly hatch, and probably more importantly, post hatch? The end of the hatch is typically when I see things really slow down for the summer.

[guideman]

I almost forgot this one,

Hot sunny calm water can be a real bummer for Walleye anglers, however the fish are still biting somewhere. The best thing to do when it's 90 degrees and sunny is to aviod midday and do your fishing early and late in the day. It's not to often you see many people Walleye fishing midday when it gets that hot, however if you can't avoid it or you are a little insane here is what I do. In those conditions on Vermilion you will often find Walleyes suspened in the deep main basin areas. Especially if it's been a steady weather pattern lasting sevral days. I liked to troll with either lead core or long lining with deep running crankbaits. They will likely be around or near some kind of structure so you should be able to find them on your locator. On Vermilion once the water temps reach their peak tempratures you can also find fish relating to deep rock or to larger main basin humps and reefs. I have on many occasions killed them on a slip bobber right on top of the reefs. If they aren't on top, fish the edges with a jig or some other livebait delivery system. Start at the bottom transistion and work your way up, you will eventually find them.

"Ace"

[Stizo]

Ace,

Thanks for the reply. Yours is an interesting take and makes good sense. Wouldn't you agree though that making SMB catch and release during both periods would be even better? After all, not all of the SMB caught are males and some of those meat eaters do fish springtime and will catch a plump girl and will ahem! well you know.

Del,

You misunderstood, I never suggested closing the season during SMB spawn. I just didn't understand why it was C&R in the fall / winter and not during the spawn.

Best regards to all,

Stizo

[delcecchi]

Del,

You misunderstood, I never suggested closing the season during SMB spawn. I just didn't understand why it was C&R in the fall / winter and not during the spawn.

Best regards to all,

Stizo

If you made it catch and release during the spawn and in the fall it would only be open for harvest for like 2 or 3 months, like July, August and a couple weeks of September.

Do you think SMB are over harvested in the Northeast part of the state?

[Chode2235]

Ace,

Is it true what they say about Vermilion walleyes: that theyre the most timid, light biting walleyes in MN?

I ask as a lot of people say that about the walleyes, and to some extent I have gotten on some really finiky fish from time to time; but I usually end up doing my best pulling plugs or fishing more aggressive techniques.

With all of those shallow shelves on the east end the lake seems made for long lining, but most people tell you to fish slow and subtle out there.

make what you will out of that question.

[guideman]

Hey guys,

It's true that some female bass will be taken during the spawn.Ultimately we all need to understand that when people fish, some fish die. If the DNR feels that the Smallmouth population can handle some harvest, then we'll just have to take their word for it. The harvest numbers for Smallmouth bass are very low compared to some other species. That being the case we will have to accept the fact that there will be some Smallies in the frying pan. I for one think they make very poor table fare but hey that's just me.

After the spawn walleyes number one most important issue isn't water temps or bottom structure, it's food. Once they start to leave their spring spawning areas they are on the search for a good steady food supply. Typically they don't really move that far in most cases. Walleyes that spawn in Pike bay stay there until the easy food source is gone. You'd be amased just how fast a few million Walleyes can eat everything in sight. The first move for many of these fish is to go out into Big bay on the mud flats where they can feed on Mayfly larva and other types of invertibrates. There are of course a large number of Walleyes that spawn out on the gravel bars in Big bay. These fish will hang around on those bars as long as there is food. There are a number of runs on the east end, not all of the Walleyes spawn in Pike bay, although it may be the largest. Many of the smaller bays have runs, especially those that have creeks or rivers entering. During late May and early June ajacent points, flats and island complexes will draw a lot of these fish to them. They may only stay a short time, but the action can be very hot until they move on to their summer haunts. There is nothing I like better in late May and early June than fishing the evening bite with a slip bobber rig. I'll tip it with either a minnow or a leech and a plain #4 or #6 hook. Points, rock walls or channels with current ajacent to their spawning areas, can be very good that time of year.

During the day I use jigs with a minnow until they just won't take them anymore. I will also use a spilt shot rig with a plain hook and a split shot. I'll just put the weight about 18 inches above the hook and fish it similar to a lindy rig except that you typically won't have to feed them any line before setting the hook.

My third choice would be a PLAIN lindy rig and by that I mean a single red hook and a sliding sinker. No floats, no spinners just a plain old lindy rig.

Bug hatches are the scurge of many a Walleye angler, however they should get you excited. Reason one is that it puts the Walleyes into a very excited state and they really put on the feedbag. Reason two, it concentrates the Walleyes in very large numbers and you have a great chance at catching some of the largest fish of the season. Just before the hatch when yoiu can see the larva on your sonar, fast moving presentations really excell. Spinners with a crawler or a leech pulled on bottom bouncers, or crankbaits trolled just off the bottom, are my go to mayfly presentations for Walleyes. The fast moving tactic doesn't give them time to think about it, it just takes advantage of thier hightened activity level. So I actually go looking for the bugs on my sonar and when I find a large concentration I start fishing. Thankfully, Vermilion is so large that we see a number of major hatches all over the lake. Last summer was a major exception as many of the hatches went off at the same time. I think that was a big reason why the early summer bite was so unpredictable last season. After the major hatches are over I go to fishing the big mainlake rock or gravel bars. There of course are always some exceptions and Walleyes will show up in places we never expect them to be at a particular time of year, but hey, that's fishing.

"Ace"

[guideman]

I don't know about whether Vermilion Walleyes are any more finicky than Walleyes anywhere else. A Walleye is a Walleye is a Walleye and they all act in predictable ways once you start to understand what they do and how they do it. Pulling cranks for Walleyes is a very under used technique on Vermilion by most anglers. I think if you look for active fish you will eventually find them. I'd much rather do the search than sit on a reef and hope they show up. There are always some suspened fish somewhere and very few angler take advantage of those fish, primarily because they just don't know how or they lack the technology to do it. There was a time when I rarely did any trolling for Walleyes, yes I admit it, I didn't know everything then. Then I started fishing tournaments on Vermilion and realized that the people winning all these tournament were doing so trolling crankbaits and in some cases big spinners with crawlers. It really rocked my world and since then(I won't tell you how many years ago that was) I have been an avid troller on the Big V.

"Ace"