Lake Vermilion Fishing Q&A

[guideman]

Hey Ya'll,

I don't know about the rest of you but I am really sick of staring down a hole and waiting for a fish to come around and bite my hook. I would much rather be out on open water chasing after them. So to help me get through the bordom of late winter I am going to answer your questions about Muskies, Pike, Walleyes and Large and Smallmouth bass. Forget the panfish, I don't fish for those, to me they are just bait.

So if you have some specific questions on techniques, presentations, baits, tackle or anything else, feel free to ask. I have 42 years of fishing experience on the Big V, I'm sure I can be of some help. I won't be giving away any specific locations, but I can tell you what to look for and offer up some ideas on how to fish it. What have you got to lose? I'm board out of my skull and talking about fishing will help to pass the time until open water comes in about 12 weeks!!

"Ace"

[Steve Foss]

Terry, do you have an average date range when smallies are up on the spawning beds on V? I know it varies based on water temp and such. The couple years I fished muskies there, I tended to find some bedded smallies on musky opener in June.

Thanks, and thanks for starting this thread. As time goes on, it should be one of the all-time best V threads on this forum.

[grapeapplepie]

Hey Ace,

I'd like to get your advice in targeting smallmouth bass in the dead of summer. I haven't had much success and wonder if you'd give out a few pointers to a novice bronzeback seeker.

Thank you in advance!

[trolloni]

Yeah Ace how about a talk about smallie fishing beginning of season thru the end of the season.

[guideman]

Hey Steve,

Personally(Inside joke)On average, the first and second week of June are the best for cathing Smallies in the shallows around the beds. However it can change dramatically at times. Last spring they were already done spawning by the first week in June over much of the lake. Vermilion is so large that there are always fish in all phases of the spawn somewhere on the lake during early spring. In the past I have taken fish that were on beds as late as the first week of July. Most years however, pre-spawn starts around the 3rd week of May, give or take a week. Once the females show up you have about two weeks of the absolute best Smallmouth fishing of the season.

[delcecchi]

Where are the smallies when they aren't on shallow rocks or along the shoreline? On the west if that makes a diffence. Do they just drop deeper towards the bottom of the reef, or do they suspend?

[guideman]

Typically I like to start the season throwing nothing but fast moving horizontal presentations. Topwaters,spinnerbaits,rattlebaits,jerkbaits,wakebaits,in-line spinners and shallow running crankbaits. I do not sight fish on the beds,it's just something I don't do. I'd rather not remove them from their beds when they are protecting their young.

It really isn't necessary to fish slow with soft plastics during the spawn unless you are targeting bedding fish. They are normally very active and agressive during the spawning phase and they will chase. Topwater baits are stone killers when they are up in shallow water and lets face it, what could be more fun than catching them on a topwater. My go to bait in the spring is a 3/8oz spinnerbait and I adjust from there.

After the spawn is over some fish will stay on the bank feeding on crawdads but most of them will move a little deeper to inshore humps or just off the break. I then start throwing deeper running crankbaits and soft plastics most of the time. I still have a spinnerbait tied up at all times however as the water warms uo into the low to mid 70's they aren't as effective as they are in colder water temps. I also use topwaters all season long, however I use poppers primarily during the warmer water mid summer period. Drop shot rigs are very effective during the mid summer period and the deep rocks get very little pressure during the summer. Most of the anglers fishing then are looking for Walleyes, not Smallmouth bass.

My favorite soft plastics are tubes and senco style worms. I also throw a lot of jig worms, jigs and grubs, jig and craws and a variety of creature baits. Rocks, docks,wood, saddles, points with boulders and rock humps in the main lake, are all good summer locations. Also don't overlook weed edges and reeds when fishing for Smallmouth. Just try to locate areas of hard bottom when fishing the grass,the Smallmouth will be there.

Fall time means deeper water and big plastic baits or deep running crankbaits. Carolina rigs, drop shot rigs and jigs are all very effective in the fall. Smallies will move into their wintering holes earlier than most people think. If you find one you will most likely catch a bunch once water temps get below 60 degrees. These are just guidelines to follow, nothing is carved in stone when it comes to fishing. Never be affraid to experiment with different baits, presentations or tactics. As far as I know Smallmouth bass can't read so they don't know what they are suposed to be bitting on. One other thing and this is just me, I NEVER use live bait to catch Smallmouth bass. It just isn't necessary, especially with all the great new plastic baits we have to use. Also keep in mind that it takes 10 to 15 years to replace a 4 or 5 lb Smallmouth, so handle them with care and release them all to fight again.

"Ace"

[guideman]

Hey Dell,

I don't fish for Smallies as much on the west end as I do the east end. primarily just because I think it's better on the east end. They do move deeper in the summer no matter which end you are on. Head of the Lakes and Niles bay have always been my favotite places to fish Smallmouth on the west side, but you can also find pretty good numbers on the west end of the Wakeumup narrows and Norwegian bay. Points and rock bars that come off of mainlake islands, deep saddle areas between islands or islands and the mainland are all good summer locations. There are always some fish suspending somewhere and Smallmouth do it more than people think. Watch for the birds on soft summer evenings when the surface is smooth or with just a ripple.

Prop style topwaters can be stone killers when they are up high feeding on mayfies or young of the year Perch fry.

"Ace"

[LunkerBaitCo]

Can you elaborate a little on how to find them in the fall i.e., what types of areas are their wintering spots and when can you expect to find them there? I spent some time trolling deeper areas near spawning areas last fall, but I did not see anything on electronics. maybe I was in the wrong spots or the boat scared them off, but I was over 20-30 feet. Thanks.

[guideman]

Sharp vertical drops off of mainlake points and rock piles are a good place to start looking. Trolling isn't really a very good way to catch them. They are relating to a particular spot and generally won't chase. Presice vertical slow moving presentations are typically the best way to catch them in the fall. Drop shots, Carolina rigs and jigs are probably the most effective way to catch them.

"Ace"

[LunkerBaitCo]

Thanks, Ace. I wasn't actually trying to catch them by trolling...just hoping to see some on the graph and then stop to fish....

[Sabaskong]

Hi Ace, I was thinking of meeting my dad and brother from duluth up on vermilion the weekend of June 10-12. They don't like to fish much, maybe 2 to 3 hours in the boat a day and I was wondering if there's a decent chance on vermilion of catching a couple walleyes or small pike for a fish fry. Also which end of the lake would you stay on and if you had any resort recommendations that would be great also.

Thanks much, Ryan

[guideman]

Hey Stillrod,

You will have your best chance to catch a few eating size Walleyes on the east end.

There are also some very good locations for Pike close to the Tower area of the lake. I can't give you any contact info on here but you can e-mail me if you'd like some lodging recommendations.

"Ace"

[mixxedbagg]

How do you keep those Lake Vermilion crayfish from hanging on to your crawler? Seriously, that's the only lake I've EVER caught a crawdaddy trolling....and I caught a bunch of 'em.

[mbeyer]

Back to deep smallmouth.

I am amazed while fishing in early spring in anywhere from 15 to 30 ft for walleye (lindy with minnow or leach) I do not run into a stray deepwater smallmouth.

We spend a great deal of time "beating the banks" for smallmouth around Memorial Day. Catch our share with various artificials. (plug in your favorite...when they are biting...hardly matters...like last spring.) However, when they are not right on the banks in the rocks, I assume they are in that deeper water.This is when we struggle.

Why in 25 springs haven't I stuck a deep water smallmouth?

[jonesen]

Has the smallmouth fishing changed as much as the walleye fishing?

Whats the biggest smallie you have seen?

[guideman]

Hey Jonesen,

The Smallmouth fishing has never been better than it is right now. Record year classes in 2000 and 2002 have really boosted the Smallmouth numbers way over their historical numbers. There are lots of fish in that 13 to 16 inch range and you have a great shot at those 17 to 20 inchers that everybody loves to catch.

My largest Smallmouth is a 6.10 beauty that I caught about 5 years ago. She was 23 inches long and still full of eggs, but she was a solid 6lb fish even without the eggs. There were several caught over 6lbs back in 02' when the FLW tournament was here. I have seen some females on beds that could have been pushing 7lbs but I never caught one that big.

As for the crawdads on your baits, there really isn't alot you can do about it. I just try to keep my baits off of the bottom when I'm pulling crawlers or jigging. I'm affraid we are stuck with them for a long time to come. Once the shorline bite slows down you just have to work the breaks or go offshore to points or saddles in the main lake. Smallies do suspend however they are typically close to some kind of structure, unless they are feeding on some kind of bait out in the open.

"Ace"

[Parker]

Guideman,

How about filling us in on some of the changes you've witnessed in your 42 years on the lake and the impact they've had on the fishery.

Examples, Going from 14 ft boats with 10 horse motors to 20 ft boats with 200 horse engines, The number of people fishing today vs in 1970, Gradual (or sudden) lakeshore development as houses / cabins have been built, the explosion of musky fishing, the explosion of electronics (finders / flashers, GPS and Maps).

[MarkB]

I have used bottom bouncer type weights for several years now. I like them for 2 reasons: first, I like the "feel" I have with the bottom and, secondly, it keeps my bait off the bottom when used in conjunction with either floating jig heads or sliding floats added above the hook. I start using the floats when I start fishing crawlers in early July. I can honestly say that we have absolutely zero problem with crawfish grabbing our crawler when using this rig. In addition, we have ourselves convinced that certain float "colors" are better at attracting fish than others, with yellow/orange being our hands down favorite. I might add that we use a relatively short leader at 3'-4'. A longer leader would definitely help keep the crawler off the bottom especially when injected with air. Another thing I like about the rig we use is you can "drag" the rig and still not worry about crayfish.

Good Fishing,

MarkB

[guideman]

Hey Parker,

One of the biggest changes over the years is what people fish for. In the 70's it was all about Walleyes, I'd bet that 95% of the anglers on the lake at any time were Walleye fishing. You would rarely see anyone casting, the bass were untouched on both ends of the lake. I still know a lot of "Oldtimers" that are shocked to hear that we have Largemouth bass in Vermilion. Now it's a much different story as we all know with the great Muskie and Smallmouth bass fishing.

The boats have changed a great deal like you said. My first "Big time" fishing boat was a 15ft Sylvan with a 25hp motor. I upgraded to a 40hp after one year and I thought I could fly. I could fill up two 6 gallon tanks for about 10 bucks and run all day all over the lake. If you saw a boat bigger than 16ft it was most likely some rich guy from the cities. It didn't matter that much back in the day because the lake was never crowded, even on the weekends.

Most of the shoreline in the bays close to town or on the highway haven't really changed that much, except that the houses are getting bigger. Most people just had simple cabins and maybe a one stall boathouse. Those days are long gone now, it's rare that anybody builds just a cabin now. They are all split level log cabins with at leasty 2 other buildings on the property. A big boathouse, a two stall garage and a sauna or a "Guest cabin". They all have at least two docks, if not more, and all kinds of water toys parked on the shoreline.

I was sooo happy that we got the new state park. It saved some of the most beautiful shoreline on the lake from ever being developed. Sure it will put a few more boats on the lake but they will primarily fishing boats and not the big water vehicles of the rich and famous. If I had my way there would never be another lot sold on Vermilion, but unfortunately I know that won't ever happen. All in all we are pretty lucky that with all the development the last several years the fishing is still good and the lake is in pretty good shape.

As for the fishing, I think it's better now(overall)than it was in the 80's and the early 90's. There was a time when people were calling Vermilion the "Dead Sea". The Muskies have been a big boost to the fishery, dispite what some of the Muskie haters out there might think. I have been a Muskie fisherman since I was a kid and having them here, in such numbers and size is a dream come true for me. I also love Smallmouth bass and I'd rather fish for either of those species than Walleyes any day. Not that I don't like Walleye, I do. They just aren't quite as exciting as the other fish.

The one thing that never changes on Vermilion is the pure pleasure I get every time I get on the lake. I was 9 years old the first time I saw her and now 50 years later I'm still not board with her. I get just as excited driving my boat on the lake now as I did all those years ago. I know that on the next cast I have a real shot at catching a trophy class fish, whether it's a Muskie, a Walleye a Bass or a Pike and there aren't a lot of drive to lakes that you can say that about in Minnesota. A great multi species fishery, beautiful shorelines to look at and lots of beautiful wildlife right at your doorstep.

But you guys already knew that!

"Ace"

[StillFishin']

Ace a great post and insight into the past. Thanks for sharing. Well recent past as this is as much as we can know during your brief lifetime.

Imagine fishing the lake in the distant past. Don't you wonder what it was like and who fished it and was it really better? We could start at the 1700 or 1800-no clue how the fishing was. On to the 1900's -OK we are getting close to eye witness reports. Maybe guys who fished it in the 30-40's could comment- but probably not computer savvy. The 1920's-90 year old not many. Fisherman before 1900 well rest in peace.

Maybe there is some place before the Internet where fishermen commended on how fishing was.

StillFishin'

[Chode2235]

Ace,

I know you told me to stay east on the other thread, but we made some reservations for the 2nd week in June on the West end. What is usually going on around that time on the lake? Where are the different species of fish typically, and what are the key things to look for in a spot. I would like to get into a few walleyes, but love chasing bass too.

Also, for a guy who has only fished the lake a couple dozen times and never west of Birch Point what advice can you give to get me started on the right foot?

[Walleye Guy]

Ace,

Do you get into Trout Lake at all? Every year we make a trip in there during the third week of June and set up a base camp. We never have issues catching fish in Little Trout, Oriniack, or Pine. However Trout is the hottest or coldest lake I have ever seen. There are years when we never venture into other lakes because the bite on Trout is incredible. There are other years where I don't think we could boat a fish if we were using dynamite. Is there a rhyme or reason to the totally on or off bite? Any general suggestions on what we should be doing on the off years?

Thanks,

Walleye Guy

[Stizo]

Hi Ace,

Just wondering if you have any thoughts on why DNR regs dictate that SM Bass are restricted to C & R only from Sept 17th thru Feb 27th and not when they're on the nests and vulnerable during the spring / early summer spawning period. In your opinion, is their some reason to suggest SMB are even more vulnerable to harvest during fall / winter? I don't eat em anyway but know that some do and this reg just seems odd and contrary to what one would think should be.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks,

Stizo

[Bob Schultz]

Ace,

Great response to Parker,

I could read that stuff all day---

Keep up the good work---Hope you have many more years of fishing on the lake you love so much.

Funny just as a footnote---It seems that people who do not live on the lake or have property on the lake never bond with the lake quite as much as those who do---Your a good example of that.

My questions point forward---what do you see happening on the lake in the next 10 or 20 years?

How will the state park affect the lake?

Will the Musky mania cool off easing the pressure some? Or will someone pop a legitimate state/world record fish making it worse?

Will the Walleyes fishing improve on the West End?

Will the real estate market come back making places with frontage rise in value?

Will the gypsy guide syndrome continue or will locals like yourself continue to guide the lake they live on?

Hope to see you on the water summer 2011.

[Casey Sunsdahl]

Will the gypsy guide syndrome continue or will locals like yourself continue to guide the lake they live on?

That would be nice if a local could afford to live on the lake.

I plan to guide as long as I can and I'm sure Ace will as well.. some of us just love to do it!

If there is a hot bite there will always be gypsys if people hire them.. If everyone hired a local guide there wouldn't be a market. Right?

[delcecchi]

Fishing was probably pretty good, but not for Smallmouth since they were not in that watershed until planted by europeans. They are another invasive species. Not much in the way of muskies I don't think either.

[guideman]

Well I don't know if I can get all these questions answered in one day but I'll give it a shot.

There have always been Muskies in Vermilion, at least there is a very high probabilty according to the DNR. They just weren't a fishable population like they are now. There are photos of Muskies in some of the resorts that are from the 40's and 50's, well before they were ever stocked in the lake. There was a book writen by a former owner of Vermilion dam lodge that has a chapter called "The Muskies of Wolf bay" The book was published in the early 50's.

I never said there weren't any fish on the west side. I fish up there a lot for Muskies and Largemouth bass. The panfishing is excellent on the west end and the Crappies can be caught all season long if you know where to go. The Walleyes are there, it's just the eating size fish are in low numbers right now due to a number of factors, least of which is the slot limit. Typically Walleyes on the west end are caught much shallower during the summer than they are on the east end. That is because each side is different. Weed lines and mainlake points hold a lot of Walleyes on the west end. People that fish that side know this and use different presentations than east end Walleye fishermen use. Sure there are shallow water Walleyes on the east end. Most of those fish are only there for short windows of oppotunity. Early or late in the day or overcast windy days with low light.

Hey Chode, I can help you out if you let me know where you'll be staying. There are always fish available it's just a matter of finding them.

Sorry, I haven't fished on Trout lake in a number of years, Casey would be the guy to ask those questions.

Eventually the Muskies will moderate into a typical Muskie lake, some big fish but mostly a mixed bag of sizes with a chance at a true trophy. At some time or another some other lake will be crowned as the new best Muskie lake. When that happens all the weekend muskie freaks will move on to that new destination and the pressure will subside. Don't get your hopes up to high though, Vermilion will always be a good Muskie lake, so there are always going to be Muskie fishermen here to take advantage of that.

Smallmouth bass were first indroduced to this part of the country back in the late 20's. I think Vermilion got her first bunch in the early 30's and the population has struggled at times. Now however the numbers of Smallmouth bass are at the highest levels we have seen in years. Rusty crawfish are a primary reason that the Bass populations in Vermilion are doing so well right now. In some areas on the east end crawdads make up 90% of their diet. Smallies are just like any other preditory fish, they will take advantage of what's available to them and even where there are huge numbers of Crawdads they will feed on other food souces to round out their diet.

I was very happy when they announced the new State Park was a go. The thought of all that beautiful shoreline being developed just depressed me. In my opinion it is one of the most beautiful areas of the entire lake. It would have meant the destruction of miles of great spawning habitat for a number of species including some of the best Smallmouth spawning areas anywhere on Lake Vermilion. It will mean a few more boats on the lake, however you can adjust to that. Once you trake away a natural area and replace it with shoreline development, it never comes back, it's lost forever. So in my mind the tradeoff was well worth it. I'll deal with the extra boats, because we all get to enjoy all the natural beauty that will be there for our children and grandchildren.

Well I hope I covered most of the questions because my old fingers aree getting worn out from all this typing...

"Ace"

[chaffmj]

Thanks for all the posts Ace. They are enjoyable to read.

[mixxedbagg]

Quote:

I was sooo happy that we got the new state park.

+1!! That's an amazing site.