Shock & Awe and Crappies

[LABS4ME]

and they pee and moan about how the walleye were taken out years ago... Same thing happened with the crappies. And no one should argue nets vs. hooks, a fish leaving the lake knows no difference! and at best we would have just delayed the inevitable. We may have had a few more years of crappie fishing like we dream of if limits were set at 5, but it still was going to come back as a walleye lake whether we liked it, wanted it, or not.

BUUUUUT, I did talk with the DNR and I really do believe them that there was absolutely no way they could've sustained themselves in that lake as the predominant species / predator. So they decided to let the limits stand and the economic boon to the area progress knowing full well that it would again simmer down to pre-boom levels and the walleye again would reign.

Even the levels of crappie that inhabit the lake now, could in essence pull off a mega-hatch / year class if the stars, sun and moon all line up again. It wasn't as if we started with a massive class of crappies to pull off another massive class of crappie. It was a select few whom pulled off a spawn of a lifetime with everything lining up as near perfect as needed to do what they did. they did it again a couple of times since, but those year classes literally did not get big enough to get through the prolonged winters up there and naturally abated to regular Red Lake year classes of crappies.

Good Luck!

Ken

[JeffB]

Booms like the crappie boom happen you just can't predict where, when, or what species. It may be devils lake, sacagawea, red, or a small pond or river near you. Only mother nature can produce them and we are forced to chase them. When it a small lake it doesn't last as long and doesn't provide near as many people with great fish stories. I think thats part of why the Red lake crappie boom was so special is it provided great fun and fishing for so many of us. Hope you all find great fishing till the next boom hits.

[slurpie]

wish i could have got up there once for that action. But i also believe as mentionted before its a cycle and they will come back for another time to shine.

[ANYFISH2]

I am certainly not bemoaning the fact that the crappies are they are population wise. I knew then, it wasn't going to last. And yes I could have harvested less crappies than I did. Then again I was never over my limit and I never wasted a fish. Thier year class 95' for a fish that has top end of life span near 12/13 years we would be at the end anyway, at worst we excellerated the down turn but we also utilized the resource and helped keep a dieing community afloat and hopefully prosper going forward. I do not feel bad!

[buckx37x]

We hit it in the hey days also.Man you guys remember what hwy.72 was like it was nuts hour or two before sunset,first time up could not believe it people driving like it was the end of time.

[LABS4ME]

72 was a wild sight indeed... Almost forgot about that... lots of dolts trying the 6 truck pass all to get to Waskish 5 minutes faster... doh! The Highway Patrol could've balanced any State budget with speeding tickets if they'd set up a HQ up there from 2000 - 2005.

But even more so I will never forget the bumper to bumper tail light traffic to get off the lake at 9pm. It was 4-5 miles of solid tail lights going 15 mph... looked like rush hour in the cities!

Good Luck!

Ken

[mojogunter]

I'm sorry I didn't realize you were a marine biologist. It seems that your post was based on your opinion, unless you are a marine biologist. If that is the case then I apologize. I looked but can't find where the DNR stocked crappies into Upper Red maybe you can show me that information. Yes without a doubt the 95 class was the perfect storm for the reproduction of crappies, but my guess along with perfect weather conditions was that there were no longer strong numbers of walleyes eating them in 95. Why were there no longer walleyes? Netting and anglers removed the majority of them. My comment was tongue in cheek referring to the red lake tribe starting to net the lake once again. Remember it started out that the tribe could only fish with a hook and line in the beginning? Then donations of more than 2 million dollars from Mystic Lake enabled the red lake trip to reopen the fishery plant. There was an article in the paper this summer telling how there wasn't enough work at the fishery plant to keep the employees busy with the approved hook and line method, so they were going to allow netting again. http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/08/03/red-lake-walleye-fishing/ http://indiancountrynews.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6761&Itemid=118 You guys on this board sure are sensitive. I wish the DNR would have left it alone and if anything managed it for crappies. There are plenty of world class walleye lakes in the state already. There is nothing like what Red had become in the heart of the crappie boom. I'll have to remember from now on, that 90% of the general public can not recognize written sarcasm.

[Skitterpop]

You'd hit Shooks, do my shake, and for some odd reason the accelerator would get stuck on my vehicle and I would be clipping along at some unsafe speed. The crappie anticipation/excitement was like a disease! Shooks to Waskish felt like an eternity!!!!!

[Gofishleech]

I will never forget the bumper to bumper tail light traffic to get off the lake at 9pm. It was 4-5 miles of solid tail lights going 15 mph... looked like rush hour in the cities!

Good Luck!

Ken

Thats what I remember, was a site to see,,all the autos lined up on the accesses to get off the lake after dark!!

[Quackaddict9]

and all the lights/laterns out on the ice that looked like the city of Minneapolis/St.Paul!

[kelly-p]

I'm told the crappies were put in the Red Lakes in 1948. Altho some days it feels like it I wasn't born yet then.

"There was an article in the paper this summer"

Good source of info for you but I'll take the experience learned from my family living here by URL for about 100 years. What you read in a paper about URL I live everyday and I usually already know what you read. I knew that nets were most likely going back in months before the info made any papers or Forums but why waste your time and energy fighting something that you can not change.

"You guys on this board sure are sensitive."

Tact and diplomacy were never my strong points. Never have been and never will be. A spade is a spade. Take the cards you were dealt and do what you can with them. The never ending posts about netting are getting very old for me. Lets see, it's been about 9 years on this Forum answering the same type of posts again and again and again and again. Rather then enjoy the memories of the crappie boom and that the walleyes are back and providing good fishing some people want to rant on about something that happened 20 years ago. 20 YEARS AGO! I didn't like it when Atlanta beat the Vikings in the NFC Championship game 10 years ago but I'm not going to waste time and energy to keep railing on about it. I'm going to enjoy the team the Vikings have now.

"I wish the DNR would have left it alone and if anything managed it for crappies."

OK, when the crappies dropped back down to their normal populations what if the sheepshead fill the void left behind? How about the void being filled by stunted perch 5 inches long? Would either of those things happening been better for you then the walleyes coming back?

I'll tell you what. Why don't you tell us how the crappie boom could have continued. Tell us what the DNR should have done to manage it for crappies. Nobody else knows how it could have been done so we will all eagerly await your plan.

[LABS4ME]

I'm sorry I didn't realize you were a marine biologist. It seems that your post was based on your opinion, unless you are a marine biologist. If that is the case then I apologize.

Knowledge is not discerned from an A on a test or a paper, it comes from your life experiences. Biologist? Naw... But Kelly probably has as much 'working' knowledge of just about any other person walking on Big Red herself. I can guarnatee you that at some point, all the DNR biologists at one time or another have asked Kelly or his Dad or his grandpa about some inner working on Red Lake. Did you know that Kelly worked with the staff at the old hatchery? Did you know that Kelly and his father were close to Bill Callies, the game warden who single handedly tried to shut down the poaching on Red in the 60s and 70s. Did you know Kelly's grandfather WAS the Game and Fish guy up there in the 30s and 40s? Do you think the stocking reports from the 40s were done with any precision? Show me some other stocking reports from the 40s... Did you know that Kelly's grandfather was one of the few people other than band members who were allowed to fish LRL? did you know that the cribs were done largely because of the role Kelly played. Do you know that Kelly is the usual suspect hired by the Govt. to dredge the mouth of the river. Do you know that though many will lay claim to the rough ice therory, it was without a doubt Kelly who developed the therory. I still remember him working on it hushed hushed in the early 2000s. did you know it was Kelly who was able to find 'the rock' prior to GPS. Did you know 4 generations of Petrowskes have worked the lake in one form or another for the past 100 years. I think if Kelly makes a statement, I'll put my chips on his answer being honest and forthright. I know Kelly well, and I know he doesn't need me (nor want me) sticking up for him... but when a friends comments are called into question, I'll try to set the record straight.

Netting in and of itself is not dooms day. Over harvesting is. As I posted in another thread, a fish doesn't care which way it's harvested... net or hook, the end is the same. If both sides of the line abide by the rules and quotas, Red will give freely of herself for all to enjoy. It is HUGE and can put out a massive number of fish. It can do so without damage or injury if all play by the rules. But there are always unscrupulous saps whom think that the rules are for someone else. That has gone on since the beginning of time. All we can do is try to uncover those few and put an end to their ways. You hear a lot of chatter about guys taking over their limits and justifying it by saying, 'their all going to be netted anyways', or their are plenty of fish in here and I am only coming up one time...', or 'I'm taking my share before someone else get theirs...' blah blah blah My father in law admits to doing so in the 70s and 80s... he figured the Indians were netting and there were plenty of fish... so why not double and triple dip. Everyone else did... Everyone of those people who took that tact, added to the problem. On top of it, they bought illiceit fish on the way home on occassion. It was all very easy to justify.

We now seem to have a new era up there. All sides are working together, the band has a Conservation Dept. they are abiding by set quotas, the fisherman seem to be for the most part respecting the lake... let's let dead dogs lie. Lets move forward and not open old wounds. We do not need specualtion or inuendo. The facts are - The lake is healthy, it is putting out great numbers of fish, it is producing healthy year classes every year, and there is greater protection in place now than ever in her history.

A good creedo to live by, especially in regards to Red, "if we are not part of the solution, we are part of the problem".

Good Luck!

Ken

[mojogunter]

Kelly P you are one grumpy sob. Once again it was sarcasm. I'm sorry it is such a touchy point for you. It was my way of showing my dismay to the netting in Upper Red or any Lake for that matter. My thought and obviously it is my opinion was that if the walleye stocking never happened then maybe the crappie population would have continued to have good classes after 1995. You and I will never know if that would have happened. There are too many variables to account for, but one being the lack of walleyes to eat the spawn of the crappies can not be overlooked. I misunderstood your comment about the crappies being introduced to Red. I thought you meant that the DNR stocked the lake in 95 and that was the reason for the outstanding class. I don't live up there that is true, and I do have to get my information from other sources, but at least I try to read about what is happening rather than develop my own ignorant mythical facts like many do who don’t see it first hand. I hope for everyone’s sake that the netting doesn't get out of hand again, but you don't have history on your side. If you read the one article I posted the tribe talked a little about illegal poaching by their tribe members by selling walleyes directly with out going through the processing plant, but they didn't feel that was much of an issue. I thought the tribe’s denial that it could be a problem was a red flag in my mind anyway. I did hear that they were going to open a casino on the Red lake reservation, and maybe that will help with revenue, and the netting will take a back seat in the tribe’s priorities. In reality the crappie boom was a much bigger revenue draw for the locals up there than the strong walleye fishing is. That is why I wish that it would have been possible to keep it a crappie lake rather than a walleye lake. Like many have said that was something never seen in MN before, and that is why it was such a draw. Like I have said there are plenty of great walleye lakes for people to fish it would have been nice to have a Red stay a crappie lake. Guides and resorts and others would have continued to benefit. The only group that didn’t benefit was the Red Lake tribe. Enough with beating the dead horse for my and your sake.

[LABS4ME]

My thought and obviously it is my opinion was that if the walleye stocking never happened then maybe the crappie population would have continued to have good classes after 1995. You and I will never know if that would have happened. There are too many variables to account for, but one being the lack of walleyes to eat the spawn of the crappies can not be overlooked. I don't live up there that is true, and I do have to get my information from other sources, but at least I try to read about what is happening rather than develop my own ignorant mythical facts like many do who don’t see it first hand. I did hear that they were going to open a casino on the Red lake reservation, and maybe that will help with revenue, and the netting will take a back seat in the tribe’s priorities. In reality the crappie boom was a much bigger revenue draw for the locals up there than the strong walleye fishing is. That is why I wish that it would have been possible to keep it a crappie lake rather than a walleye lake. Like many have said that was something never seen in MN before, and that is why it was such a draw. Like I have said there are plenty of great walleye lakes for people to fish it would have been nice to have a Red stay a crappie lake. Guides and resorts and others would have continued to benefit.

As posted in another thread... Red put out bigger year classes than the '95. And it wasn't predation from walleye that did them in. It was cold water. I think it was the '01 class ('02?) that was waaaaaaay bigger than the '95 class. It all but died out due to early ice over and late ice out. The yearlings did not get big enough or store enough fat to get through the winter and basically disappeared from the test nets. Red can never nor will ever successfully pull off crappie spawning, and hence the inability to mangage it as a crappie lake. The determing factor isn't predation or the hand of man, it is when they can spawn (needs to be early), high water to utiliaze the reeds, no wind for a couple of months for the eggs and the fry, warm water in the spring, a late warm fall and early ice out the following year. and no I am not a biologist, but instead of reading, I spent an inordinate amount of time up there and befriended a biologist who worked the lake and had regular email and phone conversations with another. All your wishes are just that... wishes. they were mine too. And I can guarantee you, the DNR would've loved to have had a way to keep the crappie population high, but had no way of doing so. And on top of it, managing it would have been doubly impossible with the amount of pressure it received. When there is word of a hot crappie bite anywhere in the MN or WI , the lake is fished hard till it is a shell of itself.

The tribe has a casino up there... always has. It will never be a big draw, to far in the middle of nowhere and there are other more easily accessed casinos.

The boom was a double edged sword in regards to the 'benefit' of guides and resorts... with all the increase in business came the onset of new problems. I think many of them will take steady business over the issues that arose during the 'boom'.

Good debate, glad your comments were tongue in cheek!

Good Luck!

Ken

[mojogunter]

I don't know him at all, and I wish that I did. I wish that he knew me as well, and none of this would have started. Like I said it was a jab at the netting starting again. I hope that the conservation dept keeps things in check, but maybe I'm a little jaded. The all mighty dollar seems to talk more than conservation does, or the greater good for that matter. Greed drives far too many people these days. It seems that a person today is measured more for what they have, rather than what they do, and that is sad. I have given many people, way too many people the benefit of the doubt, and in the end it has cost me thousands of dollars. I have worked with people that were in a much better financial situation than the Red lake tribe is that would push their own grandmother over in the mud for a dollar, so I remain hopeful, but not optimistic that the lake will stay healthy. I’m sure Kelly-P is an upstanding character, and I have no ill will towards him. I just have to remember to quit with written sarcasm, because people do not recognize it, and on this board take offense to it to a new level. Maybe I can just take on the title of resident pot stirrer. Even if in the end we may well be on the same side. Every board needs a few of them don’t they.

[LABS4ME]

Well said,

Stir away...! I've been known to do the same. But if you are going to stir the gravy pot, shake a little salt and pepper in at the same time!

Good Luck!

Ken

[Ogema]

I did hear that they were going to open a casino on the Red lake reservation.

Yeah we just opened a lovely new casino that is on the south edge of the reservation on hiway #89, way more lovelier than the previous one, stop by sometime, bring a boat, I can put you on some of them crappie you speak of catching back in the day, we're still enjoying em cuz we didn't overfish em.

[Scupper]

Ogema,

I'll be there this spring---with boat.

How do I find you???

Scott

P.S, I'm not much of a gambler but would be looking for a room...

[Ogema]

Scott, email me [email protected]

It's ok if you don't gamble, our new casino has some of the loveliest rooms I've ever seen, and I've stayed in numerous fancy hotels all around the country. It is truly a beautiful spot, and reasonably priced, and I may even be able to get you a deal

What size boat you bringn? My friends 26ft'er was a lil too big for most lakes up here.

[fish with teeth]

Ogema,

i too would love to take you up on that. i am up there (bemidji and thief river falls) once a month, we sometimes drive around the south shore of LRL just to change the scenery. i have heard great things about some of the other lakes that are with in the reservation boundries(it might have been on here), but i thought they were off limits to the non band members as well. please let me know if i am wrong about that. catch and release is fine with me all i need is the pictures(they are worth a thousand words). i have plenty of other lakes to catch some fish for the table. so if you are serious let me know and if you were being sarcastic then well then i fell for it.

thanks and good luck to everyone. Joe

my email is [email protected] looking forward to hearing from you

[Ogema]

I am serious, there are a few lakes open to non-members, all great fishing, there is a fee and you must be with a licensed guide, which is me. I will email you.

[fish with teeth]

ok thank you i didnt see your last post untill after i posted. looking forward to tring to set something up.

[Random guy]

Ogema, I hear you guys have Smallmouth lakes that are insane with fat toad football sized smallies?

[Steve Foss]

But even more so I will never forget the bumper to bumper tail light traffic to get off the lake at 9pm. It was 4-5 miles of solid tail lights going 15 mph... looked like rush hour in the cities!

I remember that! We've got a family lake cabin north of Bemidji and HQ'd there for trips to URL a few times during the heyday. And what days those were. Got a great idea from a buddy. Wonderful fresh fried crappie fillet on toast with pink sliced onion and mayo. Mmmmmmm.

[BLACKJACK]

But even more so I will never forget the bumper to bumper tail light traffic to get off the lake at 9pm. It was 4-5 miles of solid tail lights going 15 mph... looked like rush hour in the cities!

Ken

I also remember that line of taillights heading off!!!

Or the time in the spring sitting out in the boat by Hudek's, it was rough, 2 foot swells in 6 foot of water, slip bobber fishing, and catching 13 crappies on 13 straight casts!!

Or being able to pull my wheelhouse out of Rogers and set down - anywhere - and catching crappies one after the other for three nights straight.

I had heard some of the early reports of 'big crappies on Red', glad I talked my brothers into going up and checking out. Been going two/three times a year ever since, both winter and spring, interesting to watch the evolution from a crappie lake to a walleye lake. Lots of good times!!

[Ogema]

Yeah there are a few, not all small lakes are on the list of available lakes. There is very limited pressure on these lakes.

[river rat316]

Ogema, I hear you guys have Smallmouth lakes that are insane with fat toad football sized smallies?

Smallmouth? Did someone say Smallmouth?.... Hmmmm I smell a road trip!

[laportian]

I fished those little lakes 2 or 3 times a week every summer for 15 years and never caught a smallie. Loads of largemouth though. I moved off the rez in '03 so maybe they introduced smallmouth. I'll pick up a permit though and start fishing up there again this summer. I forgot how much fun those little lakes were.

[gigidy]

im happy driving 5 hours to fish red lake for some of the best walleye fishing in the state!!winter and spring we have smelly slab crappie,and bass 10 min from my house,bring on the walleye!!!!i say.