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ESmith

Bird Dog's hips xray

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ESmith

I've been worried about this since we got the little guy as a puppy. Took him to Dr. Smith this morning for a sedated hip xray among other things, and the vet categorized the hips as "OFA Excellent", which to my understanding is about as good as it gets. Tango is about 8 mos old, and weighs 57 lbs at the moment.

Talk about a load off my mind... I've heard GSP's can have dysplasia problems as much as any breed, and we didn't spend big money on a thoroughly credentialed breeder either.

Anyone else felt the sigh of relief from this or am I lending more weight to this than I should be? Whether I sent him to bird training or not, more or less hinged on this test result.

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Ralph Wiggum

I thought they had to be two years old to have their hips OFA'd, or am I thinking of a different test?

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shedaddict

I have a one year old lab that I have not taken in yet. She will be going in later this month for her year check up and also to get her hips tested.

I'm not positive on this, but aren't there usually signs that your dog will have bad hips?

To date, my dog has not shown me anything that makes me nervous. If you are going to breed your dog, than the OFA rating is more important.

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Walleye Guy

Hopping like a rabbit is a sign. Not sitting squarely on both hips is another.

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gr8icefishinmind

I thought they had to be two years old to have their hips OFA'd, or am I thinking of a different test?

You are correct, to certify hips they need to be at least 2 years to get certified!

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311Hemi

Quote:
Frequently, breeders want early knowledge of the hip status on puppies in a given litter. Preliminary hip evaluations may be as valuable to the owner or breeder as the final OFA evaluation. This allows early selection of dogs for use as show/performance/breeding prospects and dogs best suited for pet homes.

The OFA accepts preliminary consultation radiographs on puppies as young as 4 months of age for evaluation of hip conformation. If the dog is found to be dysplastic at an early age, the economic loss from the cost of training, handling, showing and so forth can be minimized and the emotional loss reduced. These preliminary radiographs are read by the OFA veterinary radiologists and are not sent to outside radiologists. The same hip grades are given to preliminary cases.

A recent publication* compared the reliability of the preliminary evaluation hip grade phenotype with the 2 year old evaluation in dogs and there was 100% reliability for a preliminary grade of excellent being normal at 2 years of age (excellent, good, or fair). There was 97.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of good being normal at 2 years of age, and 76.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of fair being normal at 2 years of age. Reliability of preliminary evaluations increased as age at the time of preliminary evaluation increased, regardless of whether dogs received a preliminary evaluation of normal hip conformation or HD. For normal hip conformations, the reliability was 89.6% at 3-6 months, 93.8% at 7-12 months, and 95.2% at 13-18 months. These results suggest that preliminary evaluations of hip joint status in dogs are generally reliable. However, dogs that receive a preliminary evaluation of fair or mild hip joint conformation should be reevaluated at an older age (24 months).

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GatorBait

My only word of advice to everyone with sedated anything is to be sure your Vet knows what they are doing. I was having my 2yr old done a few years back, during the 1st attempt they did not get the shots they wanted. So the Vet asst called, said hey, we need to get more xrays but we won't do it for 24hrs to let the 1st dose of sedation wear off. I said ok, no rush. Well, the vet decided that they would still do it that day with a lesser dose of sedation w/o approval. Needless to say, my pup never woke up. Sickest feeling in the world to get that call. Just wanted to spread the awareness.

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ESmith

311Hemi explained the 2yr thing best with what they posted.

Dr. Smith's office told us any time after 6 months is pretty reliable. Better to Xray them so you know somewhat, before spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars in training and time on a dog meant for hunting. The xray is cheap compared to that potential time/money loss.

Also, the OFA paperwork was filled out for an additional $20 today. So my experience has been somewhat different than some of yours. Feeling much better about devoting time/money to training him now though.

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Todd Caswell

You can get a prelim done on the hips anytime but to have them subbmited to OFA they need to be at least 2 years old. I believe if you want to register them with OFA you will needto have them xrayed again at 24 monthes.

Yo can have the eye's cerf'ed any time.

Quote:
My only word of advice to everyone with sedated anything is to be sure your Vet knows what they are doing. I was having my 2yr old done a few years back, during the 1st attempt they did not get the shots they wanted. So the Vet asst called, said hey, we need to get more xrays but we won't do it for 24hrs to let the 1st dose of sedation wear off. I said ok, no rush. Well, the vet decided that they would still do it that day with a lesser dose of sedation w/o approval. Needless to say, my pup never woke up. Sickest feeling in the world to get that call. Just wanted to spread the awareness.

I believe quiet a few years ago Darrel Frisbee had the High Point Derby dog in the country and it was a Male golden Retriever, brought him in just after his 2nd. bithday to get his hips done and he never came out of the sedation, he lost a really nice dog and alot of money in stud fee's.

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duckbuster

You are correct Todd. Darryl has told me the story many times. I'm not sure I would put my dog under to get the hips done. I would go back to Stillwater and keep him awake. If they came back where a better picture was needed then I would consider it, but only then.

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ESmith

You can get a prelim done on the hips anytime but to have them subbmited to OFA they need to be at least 2 years old. I believe if you want to register them with OFA you will needto have them xrayed again at 24 monthes.

Yo can have the eye's cerf'ed any time.

...edited out by Esmith for brevity...

Todd that is exactly the way Dr. Smith described it to us. The Preliminary OFA makes sense just so you have peace of mind spending additional money and time on training. It also helps you plead your dog's case if you want to breed him/her before they are 2 yrs old. Personally I am not excited about breeding him, unless he turns out to be a great hunting dog, then I might want a puppy from him some day. For us it was just to check his hips, before we send ourselves to the poor house with bird dog training.

You do have to have them x-rayed again at 24 months, and that is when you can have the actual OFA certification. But the preliminary is just about as good in the meantime. And as the other poster said, sedation is recommended just to get a more accurate picture, when the dog's muscles are relaxed. The theory being that a sober, awake dog's muscles will sometimes hold the hips tighter than they really are. But sedation has its trade offs. Thats a terrible thing if the dog doesn't come through it. Tango just looked really drunk for a little while.

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Walleye Widower

Good posts, if you care to learn a little more about good x-rays vs bad x-rays google canine hip x-rays, there is a good article from leerburg on the topic.

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Ralph Wiggum

Just out of curiosity, what did you plan on doing if the hip x-rays didn't come out as well as they did?

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ESmith

Just out of curiosity, what did you plan on doing if the hip x-rays didn't come out as well as they did?

Probably just work with him myself on the bird training stuff, and lower my expectations for his hunting career. (its hard on a dog to be hunted hard, on bad hips.)

Other than that, Tango holds a place in our family until such natural causes occur that he is no longer with us. There is something about a hyper-active GSP jumping in bed and "wet nosing" us on Sunday morning that we can't get mad at him for. So he'd have been an in house, family dog either way.

(we're working on the jumping in bed issue. but at 8 months, tango's excitement outweighs his training level)

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FCspringer

My only word of advice to everyone with sedated anything is to be sure your Vet knows what they are doing. I was having my 2yr old done a few years back, during the 1st attempt they did not get the shots they wanted. So the Vet asst called, said hey, we need to get more xrays but we won't do it for 24hrs to let the 1st dose of sedation wear off. I said ok, no rush. Well, the vet decided that they would still do it that day with a lesser dose of sedation w/o approval. Needless to say, my pup never woke up. Sickest feeling in the world to get that call. Just wanted to spread the awareness.

I would have taken this guy to the cort systems. Sorry to hear that.

I also would see if you can be present and just help hold the dog and scratch the chin etc. to get them to lay still for the pic. They should be able to with just a seditive. None of our dogs have had to be put under or even get a sed. But There are some unruly dogs that do. Make sure you get a good pic. One that is tipped slightly can effect the score. I had a prelim that was EX, and a month later the dog tipped a bit and it came back G.

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GatorBait

I would have taken this guy to the cort systems. Sorry to hear that.

I explored that avenue, though it wasn't financially feasible even if I were awarded compensation. I handled it 1 on 1 with the vet and after some legal advice and threatening of action, they agreed to reimburse myself for the cost of a new dog. Found a FC springer in Minn, a new vet, and things have been great since.

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FCspringer

Glad you were able to get a new dog. Thats something not wished on anyone.

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Ralph Wiggum

We had sedated x-rays done on our Dane yesterday. The sedative they gave him (hydromorphone) sure has some weird side effects. She warned us that he might moan/whine from it. I kid you not, he whined for nearly 3 hours straight! And this is a dog that barely let out a whimper from a massive gastric torsion surgery! You would have sworn he was in agony.

Good news is the hips look great, and it doesn't appear that there is anything seriously wrong with the knees. Might be a little meniscus damage.

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