Guests - If You want access to member only forums on FM. You will gain access only when you Sign-in or Sign-Up on Fishing Minnesota.

It's easy - LOOK UPPER right menu.

  • Announcements

    • Rick

      Members Only Fluid Forum View   08/08/2017

      Fluid forum view allows members only to get right to the meat of this community; the topics. You can toggle between your preferred forum view just below to the left on the main forum entrance. You will see three icons. Try them out and see what you prefer.   Fluid view allows you, if you are a signed up member, to see the newest topic posts in either all forums (select none or all) or in just your favorite forums (select the ones you want to see when you come to Fishing Minnesota). It keeps and in real time with respect to Topic posts and lets YOU SELECT YOUR FAVORITE FORUMS. It can make things fun and easy. This is especially true for less experienced visitors raised on social media. If you, as a members want more specific topics, you can even select a single forum to view. Let us take a look at fluid view in action. We will then break it down and explain how it works in more detail.   The video shows the topic list and the forum filter box. As you can see, it is easy to change the topic list by changing the selected forums. This view replaces the traditional list of categories and forums.   Of course, members only can change the view to better suit your way of browsing.   You will notice a “grid” option. We have moved the grid forum theme setting into the main forum settings. This makes it an option for members only to choose. This screenshot also shows the removal of the forum breadcrumb in fluid view mode. Fluid view remembers your last forum selection so you don’t lose your place when you go back to the listing. The benefit of this feature is easy to see. It removes a potential barrier of entry for members only. It puts the spotlight on topics themselves, and not the hierarchical forum structure. You as a member will enjoy viewing many forums at once and switching between them without leaving the page. We hope that fluid view, the new functionality is an asset that you enjoy .
Sign in to follow this  
ESmith

Bird Dog's hips xray

Recommended Posts

ESmith

I've been worried about this since we got the little guy as a puppy. Took him to Dr. Smith this morning for a sedated hip xray among other things, and the vet categorized the hips as "OFA Excellent", which to my understanding is about as good as it gets. Tango is about 8 mos old, and weighs 57 lbs at the moment.

Talk about a load off my mind... I've heard GSP's can have dysplasia problems as much as any breed, and we didn't spend big money on a thoroughly credentialed breeder either.

Anyone else felt the sigh of relief from this or am I lending more weight to this than I should be? Whether I sent him to bird training or not, more or less hinged on this test result.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ralph Wiggum

I thought they had to be two years old to have their hips OFA'd, or am I thinking of a different test?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shedaddict

I have a one year old lab that I have not taken in yet. She will be going in later this month for her year check up and also to get her hips tested.

I'm not positive on this, but aren't there usually signs that your dog will have bad hips?

To date, my dog has not shown me anything that makes me nervous. If you are going to breed your dog, than the OFA rating is more important.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Walleye Guy

Hopping like a rabbit is a sign. Not sitting squarely on both hips is another.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gr8icefishinmind

I thought they had to be two years old to have their hips OFA'd, or am I thinking of a different test?

You are correct, to certify hips they need to be at least 2 years to get certified!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
311Hemi

Quote:
Frequently, breeders want early knowledge of the hip status on puppies in a given litter. Preliminary hip evaluations may be as valuable to the owner or breeder as the final OFA evaluation. This allows early selection of dogs for use as show/performance/breeding prospects and dogs best suited for pet homes.

The OFA accepts preliminary consultation radiographs on puppies as young as 4 months of age for evaluation of hip conformation. If the dog is found to be dysplastic at an early age, the economic loss from the cost of training, handling, showing and so forth can be minimized and the emotional loss reduced. These preliminary radiographs are read by the OFA veterinary radiologists and are not sent to outside radiologists. The same hip grades are given to preliminary cases.

A recent publication* compared the reliability of the preliminary evaluation hip grade phenotype with the 2 year old evaluation in dogs and there was 100% reliability for a preliminary grade of excellent being normal at 2 years of age (excellent, good, or fair). There was 97.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of good being normal at 2 years of age, and 76.9% reliability for a preliminary grade of fair being normal at 2 years of age. Reliability of preliminary evaluations increased as age at the time of preliminary evaluation increased, regardless of whether dogs received a preliminary evaluation of normal hip conformation or HD. For normal hip conformations, the reliability was 89.6% at 3-6 months, 93.8% at 7-12 months, and 95.2% at 13-18 months. These results suggest that preliminary evaluations of hip joint status in dogs are generally reliable. However, dogs that receive a preliminary evaluation of fair or mild hip joint conformation should be reevaluated at an older age (24 months).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GatorBait

My only word of advice to everyone with sedated anything is to be sure your Vet knows what they are doing. I was having my 2yr old done a few years back, during the 1st attempt they did not get the shots they wanted. So the Vet asst called, said hey, we need to get more xrays but we won't do it for 24hrs to let the 1st dose of sedation wear off. I said ok, no rush. Well, the vet decided that they would still do it that day with a lesser dose of sedation w/o approval. Needless to say, my pup never woke up. Sickest feeling in the world to get that call. Just wanted to spread the awareness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ESmith

311Hemi explained the 2yr thing best with what they posted.

Dr. Smith's office told us any time after 6 months is pretty reliable. Better to Xray them so you know somewhat, before spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars in training and time on a dog meant for hunting. The xray is cheap compared to that potential time/money loss.

Also, the OFA paperwork was filled out for an additional $20 today. So my experience has been somewhat different than some of yours. Feeling much better about devoting time/money to training him now though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Todd Caswell

You can get a prelim done on the hips anytime but to have them subbmited to OFA they need to be at least 2 years old. I believe if you want to register them with OFA you will needto have them xrayed again at 24 monthes.

Yo can have the eye's cerf'ed any time.

Quote:
My only word of advice to everyone with sedated anything is to be sure your Vet knows what they are doing. I was having my 2yr old done a few years back, during the 1st attempt they did not get the shots they wanted. So the Vet asst called, said hey, we need to get more xrays but we won't do it for 24hrs to let the 1st dose of sedation wear off. I said ok, no rush. Well, the vet decided that they would still do it that day with a lesser dose of sedation w/o approval. Needless to say, my pup never woke up. Sickest feeling in the world to get that call. Just wanted to spread the awareness.

I believe quiet a few years ago Darrel Frisbee had the High Point Derby dog in the country and it was a Male golden Retriever, brought him in just after his 2nd. bithday to get his hips done and he never came out of the sedation, he lost a really nice dog and alot of money in stud fee's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
duckbuster

You are correct Todd. Darryl has told me the story many times. I'm not sure I would put my dog under to get the hips done. I would go back to Stillwater and keep him awake. If they came back where a better picture was needed then I would consider it, but only then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ESmith

You can get a prelim done on the hips anytime but to have them subbmited to OFA they need to be at least 2 years old. I believe if you want to register them with OFA you will needto have them xrayed again at 24 monthes.

Yo can have the eye's cerf'ed any time.

...edited out by Esmith for brevity...

Todd that is exactly the way Dr. Smith described it to us. The Preliminary OFA makes sense just so you have peace of mind spending additional money and time on training. It also helps you plead your dog's case if you want to breed him/her before they are 2 yrs old. Personally I am not excited about breeding him, unless he turns out to be a great hunting dog, then I might want a puppy from him some day. For us it was just to check his hips, before we send ourselves to the poor house with bird dog training.

You do have to have them x-rayed again at 24 months, and that is when you can have the actual OFA certification. But the preliminary is just about as good in the meantime. And as the other poster said, sedation is recommended just to get a more accurate picture, when the dog's muscles are relaxed. The theory being that a sober, awake dog's muscles will sometimes hold the hips tighter than they really are. But sedation has its trade offs. Thats a terrible thing if the dog doesn't come through it. Tango just looked really drunk for a little while.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Walleye Widower

Good posts, if you care to learn a little more about good x-rays vs bad x-rays google canine hip x-rays, there is a good article from leerburg on the topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ralph Wiggum

Just out of curiosity, what did you plan on doing if the hip x-rays didn't come out as well as they did?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ESmith

Just out of curiosity, what did you plan on doing if the hip x-rays didn't come out as well as they did?

Probably just work with him myself on the bird training stuff, and lower my expectations for his hunting career. (its hard on a dog to be hunted hard, on bad hips.)

Other than that, Tango holds a place in our family until such natural causes occur that he is no longer with us. There is something about a hyper-active GSP jumping in bed and "wet nosing" us on Sunday morning that we can't get mad at him for. So he'd have been an in house, family dog either way.

(we're working on the jumping in bed issue. but at 8 months, tango's excitement outweighs his training level)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FCspringer

My only word of advice to everyone with sedated anything is to be sure your Vet knows what they are doing. I was having my 2yr old done a few years back, during the 1st attempt they did not get the shots they wanted. So the Vet asst called, said hey, we need to get more xrays but we won't do it for 24hrs to let the 1st dose of sedation wear off. I said ok, no rush. Well, the vet decided that they would still do it that day with a lesser dose of sedation w/o approval. Needless to say, my pup never woke up. Sickest feeling in the world to get that call. Just wanted to spread the awareness.

I would have taken this guy to the cort systems. Sorry to hear that.

I also would see if you can be present and just help hold the dog and scratch the chin etc. to get them to lay still for the pic. They should be able to with just a seditive. None of our dogs have had to be put under or even get a sed. But There are some unruly dogs that do. Make sure you get a good pic. One that is tipped slightly can effect the score. I had a prelim that was EX, and a month later the dog tipped a bit and it came back G.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GatorBait

I would have taken this guy to the cort systems. Sorry to hear that.

I explored that avenue, though it wasn't financially feasible even if I were awarded compensation. I handled it 1 on 1 with the vet and after some legal advice and threatening of action, they agreed to reimburse myself for the cost of a new dog. Found a FC springer in Minn, a new vet, and things have been great since.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FCspringer

Glad you were able to get a new dog. Thats something not wished on anyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ralph Wiggum

We had sedated x-rays done on our Dane yesterday. The sedative they gave him (hydromorphone) sure has some weird side effects. She warned us that he might moan/whine from it. I kid you not, he whined for nearly 3 hours straight! And this is a dog that barely let out a whimper from a massive gastric torsion surgery! You would have sworn he was in agony.

Good news is the hips look great, and it doesn't appear that there is anything seriously wrong with the knees. Might be a little meniscus damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  



  • Posts

    • Rick
      State wildlife chief addresses upcoming season and future challenges By Paul Telander, DNR wildlife chief When Minnesota’s deer season ends Sunday, Dec. 31, it is quite likely the harvest will be in the 200,000 range.  This Minnesota Department of Natural Resources projection is above last year’s harvest of 173,213, below the 2003 record harvest of 290,525 and similar to the most recent 20-year average of 205,959. Prior to 2000, deer harvests in excess of 200,000 occurred only four times. Deer harvest totals typically relate to the size of the deer population and to a lesser degree to weather conditions immediately before and during the hunting season. On the 2017 season
      This should be a good deer season barring any unforeseen unusual weather. Deer numbers are up following three years of conservative harvest regulations designed to rebuild the population, coupled with three relatively mild winters. As a result, more antlerless permits are available this year, and hunters in many parts of the state will have additional opportunities to harvest more deer because of other more liberal season framework changes. Unfavorable weather, like heavy snowfall immediately before or during the hunting season, is the main factor that would prevent a harvest increase. On putting 2017 in context
      The highest deer harvests occurred during the early to mid-1990s and from 2000-2008. During this latter period, the harvest topped 200,000 each year. The high harvests in the early 2000s occurred at a time when the over-riding harvest strategy was to reduce the deer population so it wouldn’t grow out of control, as had happened in certain eastern states, and to address certain environmental, economic and social concerns. Deer harvests in excess of 225,000 occurred only once in the 1990s. Going further back, the harvests in the 1970s never topped 100,000. The harvests in the 1980s were under 150,000. Today, there’s growing discussion in the hunting community as to what’s a reasonable harvest target, and that’s a good conversation to have. On managing toward population goals
      Our aim is to keep deer numbers at population goals identified during DNR’s periodically occurring public goal-setting processes. There are 130 different deer permit areas throughout the state, and nearly all permit areas have a numeric population goal range. Population goals range from as low as a handful of deer per square mile in intensively farmed areas to 20 to 25 deer per square mile in prime forested areas. A few permit areas are too small or have too low of a harvest to model the local population. Deer numbers are at or have exceeded population goals over most of the state. Some northeast and southwest permit areas are slightly below goal. Parts of central Minnesota and southeastern Minnesota are above goal. From an overall, statewide perspective, we’re not far from where we believe Minnesota should be. On DNR transparency
      Many hunters are curious as to how we make our decisions on antlerless permit numbers and season structure, and that’s something we are trying to more effectively communicate. The process starts immediately after the deer season closes. That’s when area wildlife supervisors and staff monitor deer harvest results in their local areas and collect informal feedback from hunters, conservation officers, foresters and others. In spring, after winter severity has been monitored and deer mortality losses have been estimated, research staff run population models for each permit area based on the last year’s harvest, winter mortality, anticipated fawn births, predation and other data. These calculations are the basis of research staff recommendations for season permit area designations (lottery, managed, intensive harvest, etc.) and the number of antlerless permits that should be made available to hunters in each lottery permit area in order to achieve population goals. Research staff recommendations are sent to all area wildlife supervisors, who then have the option of agreeing with them or modifying them based on their own local observations and informal input. Often, these recommendations agree with each other, but not always. When this happens, differences get resolved at the regional or St. Paul office level. Ultimately, the agreed upon season structures and number of permits to be issued for each area are communicated to hunters through the multi-colored deer map that is part of the hunting regulations booklet and a new, more informative interactive deer map on the DNR website at mndnr.gov/deermap. On managing expectations
      That’s perhaps the hardest part of deer management, and it’s often a function of scope and scale. Our agency’s focus is on the big picture and a half million hunters. Conversely, the individual hunter is most interested in what’s happening within their immediate hunting area, which is often as little as 40 acres. It’s not well-known but among 13 Midwestern states, only Missouri manages deer populations at a finer spatial scale than Minnesota. We are serious about managing expectations and deer numbers in small geographic areas. Still, it is common to have a wide variety of opinions in each area on whether there should be more, fewer or different sized deer. To that point, we recently conducted a hunter satisfaction survey and one of the findings is that today’s hunters have higher expectations than those who hunted just 10 years ago. On communicating with hunters
      When I began my career it was common to interact with hunters at deer registration stations and local field offices. Today with the ease, convenience and popularity of phone and internet game registration, the DNR no longer has staff at deer registration stations. And people don’t visit DNR offices like they once did because so much information is available on the DNR website. Our challenge is finding new and efficient ways to have two-way conversations with hunters. This past winter we received more than 1,400 comments during a three-month long deer management plan public input effort. We were pleased with the response yet those 1,400 comments from an engaged and important audience represent only a minute fraction of the hunting public. There’s an irony in the fact that even though it is easier to be connected to one another these days because of smartphones and other technology, many people feel less connected than they once did. Figuring out how to maintain strong relations with hunters and other stakeholders is something on which we need to keep working. Minnesota’s first-ever deer plan will outline key concepts and crucial, ongoing work needed to manage deer, one of the state’s most popular and economically vibrant natural resources. An important aspect of the plan is how DNR will reach out and communicate deer management needs, necessary actions and reasons for those actions. A draft plan will be available in early 2018. I encourage everyone to read the draft plan, consider DNR’s suggested approach and give us your feedback and ideas through the public input opportunities we’ll make available. Discuss below - to view set the hook here.
    • Rick
      Hunters looking forward to higher deer numbers this season Hunters will have additional opportunities to harvest deer this season thanks to a series of mild winters and conservative hunting regulations, which have resulted in rebounding deer populations across Minnesota.  Firearms deer season opens Saturday, Nov. 4, and there are 130 permit areas in 2017. Information about each permit area can be found on the DNR’s interactive deer map at mndnr.gov/deermap, and includes wildlife manager reports, regulations, and statistics about deer harvest and populations on a local scale. Northwest deer report
      John Williams, northwest region wildlife manager More deer on the landscape in the northwest region should help hunters better enjoy the season and have good prospects for a successful hunt. Another mild winter on top of the previous two mild winters has largely enabled deer populations to be at or near goal levels in most permit areas. Fawn production was also good this year; another indication of does coming through the winter in good health. Recent rains have filled basins that were previously dry due to drought-like conditions in late summer, and water levels are up on many of the marshes and lakes in the region. Hunters should be prepared to deal with wetter than average conditions if they are hunting in or need to cross lowland areas. In general, hunters will be able to harvest more deer. In several permit areas the designations changed to allow more overall harvest. Some permit areas moved from a designation of lottery, which requires hunters to apply in advance to shoot an antlerless deer, to a hunters choice designation that allows a hunter to use one license to shoot either a buck or antlerless deer. Other permit areas changed designations from hunters choice to managed. In permit areas designated as managed, hunters can harvest two deer through use of a regular license and a bonus antlerless permit. Permit areas that did stay in the lottery designation this year may have more permits available than in previous years. Northeast deer report
      Dave Olfelt, northeast region wildlife manager Three consecutive, relatively mild winters have contributed to good fawn production and high numbers of twin births. Snow depth was moderate throughout much of the region and a relatively early green-up of forage has supported deer that appear to be in excellent physical condition. Where good habitat exists, deer populations are approaching or are at established population goals. While deer are not evenly distributed within permit areas because of habitat differences and varying levels of hunting pressure, harvest regulations have relaxed in many northern Minnesota permit areas to allow more deer harvest. Duluth, several Iron Range cities and some state parks continue to hold special hunts to reduce deer numbers. Rain and wet conditions have persisted throughout much of the fall season. Hunters may find water in areas that are typically dry this time of year and forest road access may be difficult or impassable in some locations. Hunters in far northeastern Minnesota’s primary moose range should review the new deer permit area maps for boundary and numbering changes. Central deer report
      Jami Markle, assistant central region wildlife manager “Deer are everywhere” is a common refrain across the central region this fall. Deer populations seem to have bounced back from a decline following the severe winter of 2013-2014. In fact, many deer permit areas in the region have met or are above population goals, meaning more permits will be available this fall. With rebounding deer populations and ample hunter opportunities, wildlife managers are anticipating a strong harvest in 2017. Deer look healthy as they shed their reddish summer coats for the more muted gray-brown tones that will carry them through the winter. Summer habitat conditions were ideal with an excellent growing season and plentiful native forage and cover. Does with twin fawns seem to be the norm rather than the exception this year. Wildlife managers and landowners have noted an abundant acorn crop in the central and southeast portion of the region this fall which will keep deer feeding and browsing in the oak woods. Wet conditions in late September and early October have postponed agricultural harvest so hunters may see standing crops well into the firearms season. Fall leaf drop is reported to be later than normal in the southern part of the state, but by early November sightlines should be opened up and the forest floor will have a new layer of fallen leaves. Buck scrapes and rubs are starting to appear and hunters can expect to see deer movement and patterns change as the rut approaches. Many permit areas in the central region are designated as managed this year, allowing harvest of two deer through the use of a regular license and a bonus antlerless permit. Five permit areas are designated as intensive, which allows for harvest of three deer using additional bonus permits. There are additional harvest opportunities in the 601 metro deer management area and the 603 chronic wasting disease management zone, both of which offer harvest of an unlimited number of antlerless deer. Southwest deer report 
      David Trauba, southwest region wildlife manager Two consecutive mild winters coupled with past conservative harvest strategies have allowed deer numbers to increase throughout southwestern Minnesota. In addition, wildlife managers reported good fawn production. As a result, more antlerless permits were provided for this fall’s hunting season. However, permits numbers continue to be low in select permit areas, mostly in extreme southwest, due to the loss of Conservation Reserve Program acres. Managers in these permit areas are having a difficult time increasing deer numbers due to limited habitat availability. Conversely, hunters need to be aware that permit areas 281 and 290 moved to a hunters choice designation for the first time due to an abundance of deer along the Minnesota River corridor. Two wild cards for hunters will be the amount of standing crops and river flooding. Historically the amount of standing crops drives opening weekend hunter harvest along with weather conditions. Large rainfall amounts in mid-October have resulted in flooded fields and river flooding. Crop harvest is behind schedule but this can change very quickly so it is too early to predict what amount of crops will be in the field, if any, before opening day. However, hunters should prepare for high water in select river corridors; the high water can influence deer use of these habitats. Many deer have been forced out of the river valleys into the surrounding uplands. As always, hunters need to scout and adapt to conditions. Discuss below - to view set the hook here.
    • muskie-mike
      Caught an 18 inch walleye on a crank bait and a 48" muskie grabbed it..Got it up to the boat a few times but rolled and cut my line,the walleye was dead and I had it for supper...got 2 muskies on walleyes,1 on sunfish and 1 on a crappie..
    • Toasty
      Still for sale?
    • gimruis
      I would avoid them if I were you.  All season.  There's often at least some current flowing through there and with these warmer winters, its just a bad idea.
    • gimruis
      If your getting some pretty close shooting (and gauging by your photos you are in those setups), you might want to use an IC (improved cylinder) choke instead.  Spread that pattern out a little more and switch to some smaller shot size with more velocity, especially if you're mostly just shooting as small ducks like woodies. I almost exclusively use an IC until the calendar turns November, for ducks, pheasants, and grouse.  Later on when you get more shooting at bigger, smarter birds that are on the edge of range you could go back to a modified.
    • Sunset Lodge
      Hello from the NW Angle!   Water temps are hovering around 48 degrees and fall fishing is phenomenal! Walleyes are biting anywhere from 14 to 30ft with jigging being the most effective method. Crappies are continuing to bite around sunken trees and deep holes with a good amount of perch mixed in. Anglers have had success trolling for large pike and muskies with jigging also bringing some to the boat.    We are getting fish houses ready for the 2017-18 ice fishing season and are very excited for hard water!   We recommending checking availability for winter ASAP!   Sunset Lodge
    • fishingdad
      Thank you for the responses everyone. You are correct Del I do not have the Fiber option.  We do use the Hot spot from AT&T at times but to be honest the Data does not last all that long, Even though we are right by Moccasin point & the tower is at the end of Frazer our signal is not the best at times.  We could also do DSL but according to one neighbor we may be faster sending up carrier pigeons & waiting for a response.
    • gunner55
      It's been a 1/32 oz. unpainted jig head & a small split shot along with a crappie minnow for me most of the time. Still barely see the rod tip load or wiggle a little on the bite. Even tougher with the wind lately & 20' or more down.
    • h8go4s
      Any channel on any lake is dangerous.