Muzzleloaders with scopes legistlature bill-leave it alone

[laker1]

The DNR opposed this bill last time and I hope they do again. When will it stop. The season originally was set up as a primitive hunt for black powder users from a horn pouring the powder down the barrel. Now it is pellets and a sabot with the end result it shoots as good as a single shot rifle(I know, do hunt with a in-line and like it but the season was not originally set up for this type of gun and if they went back to the original intent,that would be fine). You have to draw the line somewhere and to me scopes is one of those lines. If you allow scopes you might as well allow all single shot rifles, and are deer herd can't take the additional pressure without further restrictions on the other seasons like bow hunting and rifle. We have enough choices, just leave it alone, and say no to scopes. The original muzzle loaders it was very neat they would dress in old wool and fur garments and actually played out the primitive hunt.

[Cooter]

Same proposal going on in WI.

[Jmnhunter]

agree; leave it to muzzloaders; if you want a scope put it on a rifle

[duckhuntr21]

+1, If this is accomplished, why not just run the firearm season all the way to the middle of December instead. If you feel the need to have a scope, hunt during the rifle/shotgun season.

[Musky Buck]

I remember buying my black mountain magnum TC about 12 years ago, I knew I wouldn't be able to mount a scope but I was thinking there's no way unless my eyesight would start failing me that a scope would ever be allowed anyway. Here we are. If allowed a scope I would've been able to shoot some of the deer I had to let go, those end of shooting light bucks that I can't tell if they are shootable or not, with a scope I'd be in business, without it I have to let them walk. Switching from binoculars to raising my gun etc. hasn't panned out very well. Seems like a lot of the proposed changes lately is just adding to the overall pressure/harvest of the already in many areas way over-pressured deer. If they go to scopes I hope they make the hunter choose either the rifle season or the muzzy, not both.

[lungdeflator]

shut it down. muzzleloaders were never meant for scopes anyways

[Rip_Some_Lip]

Why not let the hunter decide. Then you people that dont want to use it dont have to and I can. With the high demand for hunting land, I have to wait until everyone else is done hunting their land before they let me in to hunt. It got even worse since they changed the seasons in zone 4 from two seasons to one long season. Now the land I used to be able to hunt on the second season is off limits the whole season until muzzle season. By then everything in the woods is so spooked that I cant hardly get a clean shot at a deer in range without a scope except for running deer. Then you got to look at the possibility of wounding more deer. I hate that people seem to think that because they dont want to do something then they think nobody should do it.

[lungdeflator]

lots of public land in MN. put your time and money in and you will find places with deer that are untouche throughout the year. even without scopes, practice practice and you will be effiecient out to 100 yards. bow season runs from september to the end of december. spend the money you would spend on a new scope and take up bowhunting. the persons land you hunt on should let you bowhunt if they will let you hunt with a scope

[Musky Buck]

I hear that rip and if it were the original 10,000 muzzy guys I wouldn't be concerned in the least about wounded deer, now that there's about 70 thousand more guys muzzying for the first time lots of guys it does concern me a bit. Scopes aren't necessary, do what I do and don't shoot, or let out your loudest whistle and maybe they will stop long enough, exactly how I connected this muzzy season on a running buck,if you are thinking a scope will help you not wound a runner guess again. I know the deer by muzzy are 95% nocturnal in my area as well, but I go for the experience and being out, getting a deer is way a low priority, but I hear ya on losing ground to hunt 4A/4B to the zone 2. That seems to be the worst thing that has happened in my area as well. If scopes are allowed I say choose either the rifle season or muzzy not both should be the deal.

[96trigger]

I shoot open sites with the shotgun, wouldn't mind shooting the ML with a scope, doesn't bother me either way. I would be OK with scopes on ML if the deer population was stable or above carrying capacity, and if the APR and no Cross tagging of bucks gets implemented, even better.

Even if it passed, I don't know if I'd spend the money on the glass. Also, ML isn't for everybody, it can be darn cold during that season.

[vister]

It seems to me people think they are owed a freezer full of deer these past few years. Heck, why even have seasons for hunting. Too many people cry about public huntin pressure this, not ethical that!! Some of these past forum topics lead me to believe half of us are true sportsman, and the other half, well, call them what you will.

Muzzleloader season has always been no scope unless by permit. You/we knew that when we bought our muzzleloaders. Why is it that after a season or two of getting skunked or missing deer with them, that half of you think "this isn't fair, I need a scope"? Just because you buy a license does not mean you're entitled to fresh venison.

Then there's the crossbow argument. What's the problem with letting seniors 65+ use one? No one thinks it's fair, or that they are considered archery equipment. Too many people think seasons and regs should be set up to accomodate them!!! Well, too bad. When I'm working,I can only hunt weekends. Should we introduce a bill that only allows hunting on the weekends, as that is most covenient for me

[Musky Buck]

Agreed Vister, I don't get it. Maybe we're old school. My thinking usually goes to what might this look like 10 years down the road, if they allow scopes then will people be all worked up if in 2 years it's decided no scopes allowed etc. I think it would add to an already growing muzzy populas. I'm really unsure why we want to add to things that will help the hunter and not the numbers in line already deer. ???

[candiru]

It is in some of the more open areas of the state that the deer herd is not doing so well now. Now they want to add to the pressure with folks being able to shoot guns capable of taking deer at 200 yds for the whole 25 days. We also need to add the additional shooting time that a scope allows.

[ANYFISH2]

I would prefer to leave it the way it is. My concern is that after rifle season a lot of private land opens up to me for hunting. If they allow scopes on muzzleloaders that will be very inviting to hunters that are on the fence as to hunt with a muzzy or not. I believe it would cause less access to even more private land. I know it sounds selfish but that is how I feel on this.

Hipocritical as it sounds, I would probably use a scope as well, if it passed.

[candiru]

If you allow this, you might as well just open the gun season up for another 2 weeks.

[laker1]

Agree with you candiru. It would be the same as a 32 day rifle season if you hunted in zone one. Leave some seasons as traditionally meant. If it ain't broken leave it alone. Some people want to take all the hunt out of the sport and enjoying nature, and just get a kill using more gadgets.

[Rip_Some_Lip]

This is the last comment from me on this subject but I dont see how it is somehow less ethical to be in the woods with a muzzleloader with a scope and only ONE round and someone in the woods with a slug gun and scope with at least FIVE rounds in the gun.

[laker1]

Both are meant to be different types of hunts, both are ethical in their own means. Both are meant to offer different experiences.

[96trigger]

Quote:

Muzzleloader season has always been no scope unless by permit. You/we knew that when we bought our muzzleloaders. Why is it that after a season or two of getting skunked or missing deer with them, that half of you think "this isn't fair, I need a scope"? Just because you buy a license does not mean you're entitled to fresh venison.

Thats a pretty huge assumption. I really didn't read about anyone that was mad about not getting any deer and how scopes would just magically make them jump in the freezer.

Funny, the vast majority of us are already shooting in-lines that have the capability of the 100-200 yard shot anyway. I'm sure that there are plenty of people on here that will say a 150 yard shot is no problem with open sites. (I'm not one of them) I really could care less either way, I just don't see the big difference. But then again, I am not in rifle country, most of the people in slug country don't use scopes on their shotguns (although I do see more and more). Half of the them are still using their bird barrels. I suppose if you are in rifle country and are used to using scopes, it might be different.

[Bear55]

This is the last comment from me on this subject but I dont see how it is somehow less ethical to be in the woods with a muzzleloader with a scope and only ONE round and someone in the woods with a slug gun and scope with at least FIVE rounds in the gun.

They way I see it is why have a separate black powder season if the new in-lines with a scope and rifle and handle shots out to 200 yards. I really like the thought of black powder and open sites. Why fix what isn't broken.

[vister]

I was born and raised in rifle country. Every rifle in our safe and gun cabinets has a scope. When I was 8, my bb gun had a scope. I gladly shoot my smoker with open sights. And let me tell you, that first season with open sights during hunting was absolutely brutal. I was on target just fine at the range, but that first deer I shot at was I lucky deer. I missed multiple times. But I never wished I had a scope, as I knew it was part of the challenge!

[duckhuntr21]

Thats the problem, nobody seems to want a challenge anymore.

[walleye365]

leave it the way it is

[96trigger]

vister, I think it is very different down here. Scopes are not that big of a deal. Only in the last ten years with the increase in shell technology and rifled barrels have scopes started to become more prevalent. Most of our shots are limited by terrain. I have multiple guns, only my .22 has a scope on it. I feel much more comfortable with open sites. However, I wouldn't mind putting a scope on a gun, not because I think it will be that much easier, or because I will have that many more opportunities at deer, but just because it might be different. 100% of the deer I have killed have been within 100 yards. 95% of those have been within 50 yards. A scope won't do a whole lot for me, which why I don't support, or oppose this Bill. It might have a greater impact on your area than on mine.

[Musky Buck]

Bingo duckhuntr21.

[bottom-bouncer]

Some of you people kill me. If you want a primative season then its time to outlaw in-lines,pellets, fiber optic sights,decoys,calls,tree stands,gps. Its called change either accept it or find something to do that will never change. If I were you I would be more concerned about how we as hunters or law makers, DNR. Are going to implement ways to increase the number of mature deer in our woods than worrying about scopes on muzzle loaders. Every one is so worried about scopes increasing the harvest rate or that more people will start muzzy hunting if they can use a scope. If you really want to help out the deer dont let kids have four days in october. And get all the guns modern or muzzy out of november!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rip_Some_Lip]

I agree with you bottom-bouncer. I guess most of you must fish without electronics, underwater cameras...etc. because that is the way they used to do it.

[Musky Buck]

Let's look back to when we had mature deer in our woods. Zone 4, 2 day or 4 turned into a cont. 9 day season. You chose to either rifle hunt or muzzy hunt. There were more safe havens for deer to mature in as they weren't hunted or developed or subdivided. We still had scopes, we still had compound bows, we still had scopeless muzzleloaders, but we all had way less opportunity and tags. The veteran hunters of yesterday are being replaced by a different kind of kid/teen/adult. It's a different era and with how much opportunity exists and how much more technology we have available we're lengthening the hunting possibilities state wide on the deer, I'm confused and being old school I actually enjoy looking for sheds as much as I enjoy deer hunting. I will probably follow my dad's footsteps and someday be done hunting as well. It's half as enjoyable as it was 15 years ago. If it's half that 15 years from now that'll do it. Seems ironic that it's less enjoyable now having all 3 deer seasons to hunt if you want vs. when I had 2 days only of rifle I enjoyed that so much more, maybe just appreciated it more. No to muzzy scopes, if anything go back to you muzzy or gun, not both.

[reddog]

Just look at how primitive bows are these days. If anything, there should be another bow season. One for primitive/bare bows and one for sighted bows.

[vister]

Some of you people kill me. If you want a primative season then its time to outlaw in-lines,pellets, fiber optic sights,decoys,calls,tree stands,gps. Its called change either accept it or find something to do that will never change. If I were you I would be more concerned about how we as hunters or law makers, DNR. Are going to implement ways to increase the number of mature deer in our woods than worrying about scopes on muzzle loaders. Every one is so worried about scopes increasing the harvest rate or that more people will start muzzy hunting if they can use a scope. If you really want to help out the deer dont let kids have four days in october. And get all the guns modern or muzzy out of november!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

holy [PoorWordUsage]. Someone else would like to see more mature deer in the woods!!! Above all new proposed bills, I feel having more mature deer in the woods should be the number one topic. We should have a healthy balance of deer in the woods before we care how they are harvested!!!!!!