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blacksportsman

Theft/Vandalism in the Twin Cities

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blacksportsman

Reading Buzbunni's topic "Smash n'..." (Mississippi pools 2-3 forum) made me wonder, how often do we outdoor enthusiasts experience theft and vandalism in the big city? I personally have been victimized at least a few times, the most recent and upsetting incident happening in May of 2000 while fishing the Mississippi River/Minnehaha creek confluence. While my buddy and I were fishing, my trunk was broken into and my .40 Glock pistol (I was an armed security officer) was taken by one of his acquaintances who had come along for the ride, but left on foot. The only reason the gun was in the trunk was because I had gone to the range just before picking the guys up. As we were putting the gear in the trunk the pistol was noticed, but I would never have thought that these guys would steal from me, it was like, "Any friend of yours is a friend of mine". A big lesson was learned that day. This particular incident is probably different than most due to the fact that the suspect knew me and knew what he was after, but I was parked in Minnehaha Falls Park, an area known for frequent vehicle break-ins even to this day. If any of you fish in the Twin Cities regularly, I'm sure you have your own stories to tell. Remember, keep your doors locked, windows up, and valuables out of sight. If it's expensive and you don't need it for the trip, don't bring it. And don't wait until you get there to start hiding things, someone may be watching you...

Manny

------------------
"You're gonna need a bigger boat"

-Chief Brody (Jaws)

[This message has been edited by blacksportsman (edited 04-29-2004).]

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Muskieguy

Manny,

I have 2 thoughts here...My first thought, is what a great topic. I am curious too see if there is a trend and if any lakes see more break-ins. I have been broken into twice, once at Crystal Lake in Burnsville, stole my checkbook, and second up at Lake MilleLacs, got my cell phone and cd's.
My second thought might be a bit controversial. I own a shotgun and a rifle for hunting and both are locked up in a gun safe at my house. I see you were/are an armed security officer, and as a gun owner I feel it is your responsibility to keep that gun out of the hands of somebody who might use it in a crime. Do you realize that your gun could have been used to shoot somebody? Sorry, that is a little harsh but keeping your gun in your trunk, especially after people you don't know are in/around your car, in an area known for break-ins is negligent! Period! I see from your post that you realize it probably wasn't the best idea but a day late dollar short on that theory as your gun is who knows where now. Again, I don't mean to stir the pot here, as I know I will probably get a bunch of angry replies but I just felt I had to say something.

Muskieguy.....

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blacksportsman

Muskieguy,

Thanks for your reply. You will never see me post an angry response. Like I said before, lessoned learned. I could say much more than that, but I elect not to, as it might be viewed as an unpleasant response. However, I do respect your opinion. You haven't said anything that I haven't heard before since that unfortunate incident, the responding police officers lectured me at the scene. I take responsibilty for what happened that evening realizing that whole occurrence was avoidable. Hopefully this topic will be enlightening to others who may not know better like I should've.

------------------
"You're gonna need a bigger boat"

-Chief Brody (Jaws)

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Havin' Fun

.

[This message has been edited by Hammer em' (edited 04-29-2004).]

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Pannyraid

Blaming the victim happens all too often these days. You go fishing and a person in your party steals your gun and you get slammed for it. As far as I'm concerned the blame falls solely on the person that committed the crime. One question for you --since you knew who did it, did the police go after them?

I have not been a victim of theft/vandalism yet. We did have one instance when someone ran into our car with their trailer while we were on the water. To their credit they left a note & phone number to contact to resolve the situation. Good people indeed.

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Fisher Dave

On behalf of the earlier post... Manny is a friend of mine, and is a very credible individual that would go out of his way for the safety of others. I had a firearm stolen from my house a long time ago.. the rest were in a safe, but the one that was *hidden* for home protection(bedroom) was found and taken in a similar situation to what Manny encountered. It was a summer day and the individual was a *friend of a friend* that asked me if he could use the bathroom... he was in the house less than 5 minutes and nobody knew that gun was there except me.

Unfortunately, I know the *aquaintence* of Manny's in which that persons friend was the one that likely took the pistol... I will not name names. That person I watched grow up, and I was a close friend of his father... The best way I can describe the kid is... Outgoing, heart of gold, talks too much... BUT ... he is also young, very easily influenced and taken advantage of, and hangs around a bad crowd... not to mention he is hard on your fishing equipment(clumsy)... He was/is one of those kids that could go *either way* in life... I hope he chose the right way.

As for problems with theft at the metro lakes... I have only had my vehicles broken into 2 times in the inner metro waters.. once was at lake Harriet, and the other was at the minnehaha/mississippi confluence(broke window to take CB).

Outer metro(suburbs) I had my battery stolen at Parley lake while duck hunting.. The only other boat out there was powered by a trolling motor and ended up rowing.. jumper cables were strung out in front of my van, I guess that didnt work because they took my battery. I had tools stolen from my Suburban from another location .. and several instances where change/cigarrettes were taken at different locations.

The bottom line is, it seems to be worse in the outskirts of the cities, and dont leave anything valuable in your vehicle.

I dont lock my vehicles anymore because if they want in, they will break the window.. thats more of a hassle to deal with than a pack of smokes or some change.

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mpester

Was the gun recovered?

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slick814

I had an ice house broken into on Green Lake (Chisago) 2 years ago. It had been a decent little shack, carpet, panelling, small wood stove for heat. Kept it locked up, but that didn't matter.
Someone broke the hasp off, and proceeded to completely tear the place apart. carpet was torn off the floor, panel from the walls, and the stove was stolen. The only thing I could figure was kids looking for booze and or drugs or something. Luckily, all I was really out was the stove, as the rest of the stuff was taken from my basement which had just been remodeled and was going to get tossed otherwise.
Now my shack is just that. Roof, 4 walls, 6 holes. don't bother to lock it up, just use a hook & eye for the door. Haven't had any problems since, other than catching a young couple "using it for privacy"...

------------------
Fishin' is life
The rest is just details

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Fisher Dave

TUMBLEWEED...

I grew up on 34th Street and 1st Ave in South Minneapolis(Lake St & Nicollet area).. A *Hidden* gun in that area is nothing more than common sense. At the time that neighborhood was at it's worst there were gunshots ringing off several times nightly, occasionaly, fully auto weapons. Have you ever been sitting on the couch watching TV at night and had a gunfight break out between your house and the neighbor.. literally being able to see the muzzle flash out your window? Have you ever had your doorbell ring at 3 am and have more than 20 gangsters in your back yard and all are hiding from ovious view of the door other than the 1 that rang the door bell? How about this, have you EVER been standing in your kitchen on the telephone and turn around to have 2 semi-auto pistols pointed at your face within a foot? Ever had people attempt to car jack you? Have you ever been Jumped by a dozen people in your driveway coming home from work and trying to get out of your vehicle? Have you ever been shot at or stabbed?

Well ... I have on all of the above and much more. Some of us dont/or didnt have the luxury of living in a *good neighborhood*... and our families werent there by choice either... I moved out of *the hood* soon after my kid was born. I carried a gun for years before the conciel and carry law was around.. now I dont carry .. because I dont live there, If I did, I would carry and have several guns hidden.

When your family is in jeopardy.. there is no time to open a safe, my kids will be raised with guns in their hands and will know how and when to use them. I was active in a gun club at 6 years old... If you want to increase your chances of a firearms accident with your kids .. keep them away from guns .. eventually they will have one in their hands.. its up to us parents to be sure they know what they are used for, and have respect for them.

Please dont ever try to judge anyone(no pun intended).

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FisherDan

Well here is my story. Last summer we were fishing the dock at Long Lake. Our car was parked about one hundred feet from us. Someone smashed the window and stole the girlfriend’s purse that was under the seat. The strap must have been sticking out to see it. We always put it in the trunk but this time we didn’t and we paid the price. Never seen or heard anything. Between the two of us we must have walked past the car every hour or so to use the bathroom. So we found the broken window pretty fast but they were faster they were using the credit card in less then a half-hour. LIVE AND LEARN I GUESS.

Now on the other hand let’s also talk about the good that has happened to us or what we have done. Also last summer we were heading to square lake. There was a truck pulling a boat in front of us as we went around a curve out flew a rod case from the boat we pulled right over grabbed the case with a nice setup in it by the way. We chased them down after a few miles and flagged them down to stop and returned it to them. They said thanks and appreciated it. Here is something to think about if something like this was to happen to you. We just happened to stop and get minnows at the same place they were at. If it was me and someone just chased me down to give me back my rod I would have offered to pay for their minnows. Of course we would have turned the offer down but it would have been a nice gesture.

Dan fish-jumping.gif

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gundy89

I got a brand new baitcaster setup last spring and got out once with it before someone snatched it out of my boat while I went for the truck. I usually put everything in the compartments but this time I got lazy and left it laying in the boat. Lesson learned, but it stung. That's all I have had to deal with(knock on wood)

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Ole1855

Manny, this is a very interesting topic. I don't fish much in the Cities, I spend most of my time up north. Here's what happened to me and a friend many years up at the landing, I think it was Pigeon River, near Cut Foot. When we got to the landing I went to get my truck and my buddies boat trailer, when I headed to the truck, I noticed the trailer was up on a block and one of the tires was missing!!!!

Some &%$@+&^% had jacked up the trailer and stolen one of our tires, I suppose they had a flat and needed a spare to get home. Of course we had to drive back to Deer River to find a spare, what a pain in the ... you know what.

As for the handgun being stolen, that is a shame, for the preacher that came on blaming the victim.... I can't say what I'd like to but, that seems to be the trend and problem in todays society, nobody ever want to blame the person responsible and people today take no responsibility or accountibility for their actions. And people wonder why our society has so many problems!!!

Ole

[This message has been edited by Ole1855 (edited 04-29-2004).]

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TUMBLEWEED

I am going to back the Muskieguy on this.
He states right away he is not bashing
the guy. We are not talking fishing poles
checkbooks, baterries, etc. We are talking about a weapon. I feel you must go to the nnthh degree with the storage of them in this day and age. No more fancy glass and wooden cases. No more "hidden" guns either
by the way. frown.gif You don't want to know how many are "found" by others.

I have many firearms myself, and feel fine
with the aluminum softball bat as my go to
in case of break-ins or such. All my other stuff rests safely in a 650 pound safe,
behind several locked doors to get to that.

There should be such a thing requiring a
responsible ownership that would keep us
all taking better care to stop those
who would try to access these firearms.

I would think the trunk thing would border
on a careless handling/storage issue, that
could be upgraded to a negligent one if
the ammo was there in the trunk as well.

The "hidden" gun would fall under the same
depending on circumstances(loaded, etc).

Reguardless, they serve as a good lesson
of how "NOT" to store your weapon!!

I will now get down from the platform. smile.gif

[This message has been edited by TUMBLEWEED (edited 04-29-2004).]

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blacksportsman

Hmmmm, where to start? Well, thanks for all the replies thus far. Thanks Fisher Dave for coming to my defense. Dave is a friend of mine whom is familiar with the incident and its specifics including the people (who will remain nameless) involved. I didn't feel it was necessary for me to defend myself because I do accept responsibility for the things I could've done differently that day. I also find it easier to accept blame rather than attempt to deflect it. I would like to clarify a few things here. I don't store guns in my trunk. I transport them cased and unloaded in my trunk. The one day I decided against going home to drop it off before doing something else would happen to be the same day I get ripped off. That is the one and only thing I would've done differently. I didn't have any ammo in the car. Although suspects were identified, last I checked no arrests were made and the gun is yet to be recovered.

On the issue of "blaming the victim" I will say something. Give the victim a chance to reflect on what happened, let them decide if they deserve the blame. Blame seems to be more of an issue of opinion than a matter of fact. Those who have been the victim in any crime know the last thing you need is someone beating you up, telling you it's your fault you've been victimized.

Finally, acts of theft or vandalism can occur anywhere at anytime. These are crimes of opportunity, and as unfortunate as it is, there are people out there who will rip you off if given the chance to do so. All we can do is take the necessary precautions to reduce the risk of property loss or damage.

Thanks for listening,

Manny (blacksportsman)

------------------
"You're gonna need a bigger boat"

-Chief Brody (Jaws)

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TUMBLEWEED

FisherDave, If you read my post, it was
concerning STORAGE/CONTROL of a weapon.
If you got it on your person, it is
controlled!! I got no beef with carrying
heat. To answer your questions. Here are
a few surprises for you. smile.gif At one time
I also lived in South Minneapolis!!
(Riverside Neighborhood) I have not been
shot, but have had guns pointed at me before.
I was stabbed once, but not severly injured.
I was victim of several burglaries and
vandilism. My family was young then and
there was always a felt need to be extra
cautious when we lived there. I too,moved away from that place.

I still stand by my post, and it was not
meant to be judging anyone. I will leave
that to the court system. I think both
situations were good learning lessons
and hopefully, nobody will have to
find out liability for the tradgedy
that can come outta the same scenereos.

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wastewaterguru

I am not a pro-gun or anti-gun activist. I believe that people should however have the right to own and carry one if they so choose.

Besides.....guns don't kill people.....people kill people.

Blacksportsman should be telling several of you to kiss something and I certainly have a great deal of respect for his restraint and candor in accepting some responsibility for the theft.

I use my laptop for work and sometimes I am in a situation where I am not able to drop it off at home before my next activity. If somebody breaks into my car and steals my laptop and uses the information on it for acts of terrorism....or just beats someone over the head with it and kills them....I am not going to lose any sleep over it. I am not the one committing a crime.

ANYTHING CAN BE USED AS A DEADLY WEAPON

When you guys go hunting, do you bring the guns in with you to every restaurant/gas station/hotel, etc. etc.

There are a few people who responded here that need to just calm down. No one was at fault here except the guy that stole the gun, and the apparantly narrow-minded responders to this thread that are quick to judge an individual for LEGALLY transporting his unloaded weapon in a locked trunk need to wake up to reality. By the way, the fact that you grew up in the "hood" certainly doesn't make anyone a firearms expert and has about as much relevence to this topic as my laptop does. I grew up in the hood too but I don't use it as leverage to try to convince people that I am the ultimate judge of handgun responsibility. Judge yourself....not others. No one broke the law here except the thief.

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korn_fish

AMEN WWG!!!!!

couldn't have said it any better than that.

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TUMBLEWEED

WWG, Love the comparisions.. smile.gif

Say, what caliber is your Dell anyway ??
Do you have the extended RAM magazine ??


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Muskieguy

Fisher Dave, I agree with you in the fact that if I lived in a neighborhood where guns were prevalent I would too probably carry something for safety. That being said, where do you think these thugs are getting their guns? Do you think they are buying them at Gander Mountain or Wal-Mart? No, they are stealing them from people who don't take care in storing their guns. (That was not a dig on blacksportsman, I know he understands what he could have done differently, and thank you for not blasting me back, says a lot about you!). The gun that was pointed at you was probably stolen off somebody who didn't take care in storing it....Do you wish that person would have stored it in a safe? Because if he did maybe that thug wouldn't have had that gun to point at you. I know it looks like I am blaming the victim here but I think people are prone to being victimized with some of the actions they do. It is just the society we live in. In today's society you cannot leave a $100 bill on your car seat and expect it to be there when you get back. Criminals are opportunistic, they steal when the opportunity arises...Don't give them the opportunity.

WWG, good post..and I don't really disagree with anything you said. I do keep my firearm in sight at all times while hunting. We camp and either it is in my lap sitting in my stand, or cased and laying next to me by the bonfire on in my tent.

This is just a little to heavy for a Friday, so I will end here. I hope no one thinks badly of me for this post, but like someone has said, opinions are like a-holes, everybody's got one and they all stink. I hope if I ever meet any of you we can forget about this and talk fishing fishing fishing...

And finally to Blacksportsman, sorry I ruined your original post about vandalism. If I didn't start "preaching" I bet we would have seen a lot more replies.

Muskieguy.....

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can it be luck?

Manny, I respect the fact that you've used "restraint" as far as reply posts. smile.gif I don't feel your wrong in the least bit. The person to blame is the THIEF!

Fisher Dave, Yes, yes, yes, and yes to all those scenarios!
Living in Hartford and Bridgeport CT. as well as NYC, I've seen it all! I've been around guns all my life and they don't scare me, but I wasn't used to hearing them go off on a nightly basis by people hunting humans! In a 5 year period of time I managed to get robbed, beat down, etc., either with guns, knives, pipes, or bats. Luckily, I left there with only a bullet hole in my side, stab wound in my shoulder, broken hand and elbow, and misc. scars from stitches and what not. I think being 1/2 Japanese helped. They thought I was Puerto Rican or something. If you're white, forget it, your getting robbed when in the "projects" or any other "bad" part of the city. Sad part is, and I still can't understand it, I never seen any type of remorse or human compassion when these things happen. It's like human life is absolutly NOTHING! Drugs play a big part. The inner city is like a world of it's own.

WWG, Good post. What do guys do when they go hunting? Carry a safe with them? LOL

I keep guns all around my house. Under my bed, garage, closets, and a few other places as well. I may never need them, and it may be a once in lifetime thing,but when I do, I won't regret the easy access I have to them!

PS: When the "bad guy" comes looking for my gun....I'll GIVE IT TO HIM!!

------------------
http://groups.msn.com/canitbeluck

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rockhardinmn

I will admit that i didnt read every posting on this issue ,, with that said :

I feel that alot of you have missed something. The " Friend of A Friend". If there is someone that comes to my home with a friend of mine i tend to watch them. It seems to be to me that your friend should have at lest some idea of his friends shady side. We all know of of have some shady people. Some of them are friends that we can trust , but we also know that they cant be so trustyworthy in other settings like at another friends home. I know i have a some friends i will take anywhere with me ,, others very few places cause i dont know what they may do. For my shady friends most will give me the shirt off their back but thats to me not to others. some thing to consider.

As far as protecting your home. If i am put into a situation like those mentioned above. Consider yourself lucky if you make it out the door grin.gif


GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE,,,PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE,,
MORE GUN CONTROLLS = LESS LAW ABIDING PEOPLE WITH GUNS ,,,CRIMMALS DONT BUY GUNS LEGALLY THEY STEAL THEM

Some of this may raise a stir grin.gif

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TUMBLEWEED

A touchy subject no doubt. I also hope
this hasn't spiraled into anything too wild. On the whole, it stayed pretty tame. Our
actions speak louder than words, and I
have no doubt everyone's intentions are
good. No fouls really. Lets talk some
fishing now!!!

P.S. WWG, Granny on the Equipment Help link
needs you to bring over your Dell,to
take care of a skunk problem!!

(Sorry, I couldn't resist one last "shot")

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Muskieguy

CIBL, I will ask you the same question. Do you think you were shot by a gun that was purchased by the shooter? Heck no, it was stolen from someone who was negligent in storing his gun around the house or in his car or whatever. You are missing my point! These thugs can not buy a firearm from a store becuase of the background check...they get the gun from stealing it or buying it from someone who stole it from some one who is NEGLIGENT! See my point???

Do I take a safe with me when I hunt? No, but do I keep my firearm in arms reach at all times? You are darn right. Do I sleep with it in my tent...you betcha, too expensive and too dangerous in the wrong hands!!! Sounds like any drunk idiot walking thought CIBL's deer camp can steal a gun pretty easy...keep your gun in a safe place, please people...

Muskieguy...P.S. on a separate topic...CIBL has posted some beautiful eye pics here on the site...I just hope a tad of his talent washes off on me as Minnesota's eye opener is just around the corner, wish me luck!

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Fisher Dave

Unless it has recently changed .. one can buy a pistol(anything other than a fully auto firearm) at gun shows without the backround check.. or filling anything out for that matter, unless your writing a check.

Its a gun show *loop hole*.

I purchased 4 pistols(3 semi auto's, 1 revolver) from a gun show 2 years ago and did nothing more than hand over the cash and walk away with the firearms... no backround check, no permits, no registration... just a smile and a thank you from the seller.

To think guns must be obtained illegally for criminals is naive.

More guns likely get in the wrong hands from teens selling their parents guns for beer money that are actually stolen from a residence... yes, a lot of it comes down to many people not properly locking up their weapons.. that doesnt mean that people are in the wrong keeping out a weapon for home defense.

Wasnt this topic about metro area theft at the lakes . or something like that?

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slick814

It amazes me how this thread was started with the question of is any of us had ever been robbed or vandalized while fishing in the Metro area, and it's become a gun control forum.
As I posted earlier, I wa vandalized at a an area lake. Did it change the way I do things? YES.
Did blacksportsman change the way that he does things? YES. (Even though he was in the right. His gun was locked in the trunk, in a case, and no ammunition.) The thief/vandal in virtually every case is the one to blame, not the victim of the crime.
With all that said, I was wondering the same as bsm, has anyone else been robbed or vandalized, and how has it changed your approach to things?

------------------
Fishin' is life
The rest is just details

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