Guests - If You want access to member only forums on FM. You will gain access only when you Sign-in or Sign-Up on Fishing Minnesota.

It's easy - LOOK UPPER right menu.

  • Announcements

    • Rick

      Members Only Fluid Forum View   08/08/2017

      Fluid forum view allows members only to get right to the meat of this community; the topics. You can toggle between your preferred forum view just below to the left on the main forum entrance. You will see three icons. Try them out and see what you prefer.   Fluid view allows you, if you are a signed up member, to see the newest topic posts in either all forums (select none or all) or in just your favorite forums (select the ones you want to see when you come to Fishing Minnesota). It keeps and in real time with respect to Topic posts and lets YOU SELECT YOUR FAVORITE FORUMS. It can make things fun and easy. This is especially true for less experienced visitors raised on social media. If you, as a members want more specific topics, you can even select a single forum to view. Let us take a look at fluid view in action. We will then break it down and explain how it works in more detail.   The video shows the topic list and the forum filter box. As you can see, it is easy to change the topic list by changing the selected forums. This view replaces the traditional list of categories and forums.   Of course, members only can change the view to better suit your way of browsing.   You will notice a “grid” option. We have moved the grid forum theme setting into the main forum settings. This makes it an option for members only to choose. This screenshot also shows the removal of the forum breadcrumb in fluid view mode. Fluid view remembers your last forum selection so you don’t lose your place when you go back to the listing. The benefit of this feature is easy to see. It removes a potential barrier of entry for members only. It puts the spotlight on topics themselves, and not the hierarchical forum structure. You as a member will enjoy viewing many forums at once and switching between them without leaving the page. We hope that fluid view, the new functionality is an asset that you enjoy .
Sign in to follow this  
Cooter

Grouse cycle - again

Recommended Posts

Cooter    0
Cooter

Thought I saw this topic twitch again so it may need another beating. What I want to discuss is the causes for the cycle - why the ups and downs? Not so much at what point of the cycle last year or this year.

Curious about theories, old or new. Predator based? Forage based? Neither, both? Logging/habitat management? Other?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bimbo    0
bimbo

yeah this is a weird topic, its too tough to know the real explanation? so i would also like to hear some of your thoughts also?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bowfin    0
Bowfin

I was told a theory from a wildlife biologist that the chemical make-up in aspen buds (grouse main food)goes through a up and down cycle. I can't remember the chemical, but it builds up over time in the aspen - high amounts of it start to make the aspen buds less palatable to grouse. When its at its highest, grouse will turn more to feeding on birch. The grouse pop may follow this cycle also. The biologist emphasized this was just a theory at this point.

Here in NE Minnesota we have plenty of good habitat due to forest management and logging - The habitat has improved for grouse over the last 30 years and yet we still have the pop swings so there may be something to this theory.

Anyways, cycle or not, this winter has got to be hard on grouse - not much snow since December has caused a hard crust on the snow. Several hard cold snaps (20-30 below with 30-50 below windchills)and the grouse have no snow to bury in for shelter - bummer!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
grousehunter    0
grousehunter

I have heard two different theories. The first is based off predation of hawks and how they relate to the population of snow hares? (or whatever rabbit is common up here). They will stay further north i.e. canada until population lowers of rabbits and then come south to MN and feed on grouse/rabbits until population is low and then go back north and so on equaling out to the famous 10 year cycle. The other is how the grouse relate to the army worms?? again not sure what there called, but the ones that come in the thousands. I forget the reasoning behind this one, but im sure someone else knows something about it and can tell more. And they go up and down because of popluation of worms...Not sure i believe either of them, but a couple reasons ive heard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
charliepete2    0
charliepete2

I've heard the same thing bowfin has about the aspen buds becoming bitter and unpalatable for grouse. I heard it speculated that the aspens make the chemical change to deal with the tent caterpillars which also rise and fall on a cycle. The only thing I'm sure of is that no on knows for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
setterguy    0
setterguy

The chemical is Tannin. And the Aspens do create it. And to me it is the best explanation going. The cycle is much less drastic in the south where the main food source is not Aspen buds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rowdyf    0
rowdyf

Read...

Walter J. Jakubas1, Gordon W. Gullion1 and Thomas P. Clausen2

(1) Department of Fisheries and Wildlife, University of Minnesota, 55108 St. Paul, Minnesota

(2) Department of Chemistry, University of Alaska, 99775 Fairbanks, Alaska

Received: 1 August 1988 Accepted: 20 September 1988

Abstract Quaking aspen (Populus tremuloides Michx.) staminate flower buds and the extended catkins are primary food resources for ruffed grouse (Bonasa umbellus). Winter feeding observations indicate that ruffed grouse select specific trees or clones of quaking aspen to feed in. Flower buds and catkins of quaking aspen were analyzed for secondary compounds (tannins, alkaloids, and phenolics) that might cause ruffed grouse to avoid trees with high levels of these compounds. Coniferyl benzoate, a compound that has not been previously found in quaking aspen, exists in significantly higher concentrations in buds from trees with no feeding history as compared to ruffed grouse feeding trees. Aspen catkins were also significantly lower in coniferyl benzoate than buds from the same tree. Ruffed grouse feeding preference was not related to the tannin or total phenolic levels found in buds or catkins. Buds from feeding trees had higher protein levels than trees with no feeding history; however, catkins did not differ from buds in protein concentration. The high use of extended catkins in the spring by ruffed grouse is probably due to a lower percentage of bud scale material in the catkin as opposed to the dormant bud. Bud scales contain almost all of the nontannin phenolics in catkins and dormant buds. A feeding strategy where bud scales are avoided may exist for other bird species that feed on quaking aspen. Dormant flower buds are significantly lower in protein-precipitable tannins than catkins and differ in secondary metabolite composition from other aspen foliage.

Key words Coniferyl benzoate - Populus tremuloides - Bonasa umbellus - Fringillidae - feeding behavior - secondary metabolites - tannins - phenols

Minnesota Agriculture Experiment Station Journal Series No. 16,953.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
setterguy    0
setterguy

Newer studies suggest that the feeding patterns stay the same, but the higher levels of tannins could cause damage to the eggs come spring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tacklejunkie    11
tacklejunkie

 Originally Posted By: Bowfin
I was told a theory from a wildlife biologist that the chemical make-up in aspen buds (grouse main food)goes through a up and down cycle. I can't remember the chemical, but it builds up over time in the aspen - high amounts of it start to make the aspen buds less palatable to grouse. When its at its highest, grouse will turn more to feeding on birch. The grouse pop may follow this cycle also. The biologist emphasized this was just a theory at this point.

Here in NE Minnesota we have plenty of good habitat due to forest management and logging - The habitat has improved for grouse over the last 30 years and yet we still have the pop swings so there may be something to this theory.

Anyways, cycle or not, this winter has got to be hard on grouse - not much snow since December has caused a hard crust on the snow. Several hard cold snaps (20-30 below with 30-50 below windchills)and the grouse have no snow to bury in for shelter - bummer!

there is plenty of snow and even with the crust, the snow in the woods is different. i have found the depressions were grouse have been in the snow. Barring a cold wet spring, they should do fine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shack    16
Shack

I think last winter was more of a hard winter than this year. One could not even snowmobile last year. This year it has been good.

As for the grouse cycle thing, you just have to find them. That is what I have found.

I got birds when I went out and posted images of them on here. I only went out 4-5 times and had success all but one time I tried an off set area.

Get out and find them, they are around no matter what year it is.

Good luck..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
brittman    0
brittman

Grouse cycle on approximate 10 year cycle (high to high), but year to year fluctuations do occur. Winter can impact.

Spring and early summers that are cool and rainy have a big impact on fall populations and hunter success.

Last peak was moderated (lowered) by three consecutive wet and cool springs. 1999 - 2001 could have been better than they were and they were great!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  



  • Posts

    • Meterman
      I noticed this spring that the higher end Shimano Stradic and others have eliminated the ability to back reel (no reverse) which I believe is a huge mistake, I don't like it!    any others have comments?
    • bbfenatic
      Been out chasing crappies again in the DL area..been a while...finding some nice ones in mouth of a river...pic of a couple
    • monstermoose78
      Went up north grouse hunting it was fun. I must say having a dog makes it better.  This weekend is duck opener and I am jacked up for it. 
    • SkunkedAgain
      The public launch at The Landing on the west end stays open until the ice sets in, but they do pull the dock sometimes around the end of October / beginning of November.
    • KidMoe
      Just curious if people are finding fish moving into fall patterns yet or still finding them in more summer locations?  I've been finding good sized panfish in deeper water myself around more mid lake structure. Most of the lakes I've been on are still pretty green with algae and weeds. 
    • Cliff Wagenbach
      Captain Acorn, I use Gamagatu  octopus hooks. Size 4 for crawlers and size 2 for minnows. Red, black, chartreuse, and pink , mostly red and black. I use orange and green glow soft beads at times. (Worked today!) Cliff
    • Barrington
      NOW BOOKING FOR THE 2018 ICE FISHING SEASON!!
      LIMITED SPOTS ARE AVAILABLE..   Barrington Lake camp will now be offering remote ice fishing for the very first time thanks to its unique train access. You can also come by ski-doo from the town of Savant Lake. Its a 30-45min ride. Ice fishing with us at Barrington r Camp will be one of the coolest fishing trips you ever experience! Pristine snow covered lakes in the rugged Canadian Shield. Remoteness! Where the fish are plentiful and tasty! During our ice fishing season, we use the main lodge for accommodations. The air tight wood stoves in every room keep you  toasty warm and the propane lights make it cozy and rustic. This is remote ice fishing at its best. At camp you will have a heated room, Wi-Fi, full kitchen with propane fridge and stove, a newly built heated outhouse, and electricity on demand to charge batteries and extra lights. A flat screen TV for hockey games is also available. We access numerous lakes by snowmobile, ATV and even snowshoes. We travel with portable ice huts to keep us mobile and on top of fish.  Water will be available through the lake but there will be no running water for showers. The fishing has been outstanding all summer long so why not extend it year round. Main species in the lake are walleye, northern, white fish, and some perch. There has been numerous 26"-30" walleye's caught on a weekly basis through out the summer. This camp and lake have been private up until this past summer. 90% of groups who came for the first time this year have already booked for next year. References are available.
      Limited spots available for ice-fishing. Only 2 rooms available in the winter months. You will have 1000's of acres of water at to your self.   ******4 Man Sunday to Monday Special $600/Person******
      Included in the package.. -Accommodations
      -Train tickets
      -Ice auger
      -Ice Shelter
      -Quad or Ski doo for traveling the late All you need is your equipment & Food. Our ice fishing packages are very flexible and can be customized to suit your requests. Come try one of our Northwestern Ontario winter getaways, ice fishing remote waters! The train departs either Armstrong Ontario north of Thunder Bay, or Sioux Look out Ontario 2 days a week. Its a 1.5 hour ride direct to camp from either direction. Dates can be re-arranged to suit your needs.
      Call or e-mail for more information.
      Tonnes of new reviews & references available from this year.
      Check out our website at www.barringtonlakecamp.com
      or our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/Barringtonlake/ Jonathan & Lyndsey
      807-584-2202
      807-407-4202                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      807-407-3997
      You wont be disappointed!! No one has been yet!
    • Hoey
    • Captain Acorn
      I was up for a long weekend this past weekend. For us the only thing that was working leadcore with cranks 18-24fow looks of eaters but not one over 18" couldn't get the digging raps rigs or jog and minnow to go but I'm sure it's not far off caught about half of mine on cranks when I was turning and didn't seem to matter weather the pole was on the inside or outside 2.2 2.4 was our speed flicker shads and deep runner raps #5 and 7. Cliff what style and size of hook do u use for your minnow rigs? Any beads used? 
    • monstermoose78
      This weekend near grand marais on thursday and Friday the no see ems were out. A few skeets but once it cooled down the no see ems were gone. Fished a lake that known for horrible bugs and it was not bad.