Jump to content
  • GUESTS

    If You  want access  to member only forums on FM, You will need to Sign-in or  Sign-Up now .

    This box will disappear once you are signed in as a member.

Grouse cycle - again


Cooter

Recommended Posts

Thought I saw this topic twitch again so it may need another beating. What I want to discuss is the causes for the cycle - why the ups and downs? Not so much at what point of the cycle last year or this year.

Curious about theories, old or new. Predator based? Forage based? Neither, both? Logging/habitat management? Other?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

yeah this is a weird topic, its too tough to know the real explanation? so i would also like to hear some of your thoughts also?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was told a theory from a wildlife biologist that the chemical make-up in aspen buds (grouse main food)goes through a up and down cycle. I can't remember the chemical, but it builds up over time in the aspen - high amounts of it start to make the aspen buds less palatable to grouse. When its at its highest, grouse will turn more to feeding on birch. The grouse pop may follow this cycle also. The biologist emphasized this was just a theory at this point.

Here in NE Minnesota we have plenty of good habitat due to forest management and logging - The habitat has improved for grouse over the last 30 years and yet we still have the pop swings so there may be something to this theory.

Anyways, cycle or not, this winter has got to be hard on grouse - not much snow since December has caused a hard crust on the snow. Several hard cold snaps (20-30 below with 30-50 below windchills)and the grouse have no snow to bury in for shelter - bummer!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have heard two different theories. The first is based off predation of hawks and how they relate to the population of snow hares? (or whatever rabbit is common up here). They will stay further north i.e. canada until population lowers of rabbits and then come south to MN and feed on grouse/rabbits until population is low and then go back north and so on equaling out to the famous 10 year cycle. The other is how the grouse relate to the army worms?? again not sure what there called, but the ones that come in the thousands. I forget the reasoning behind this one, but im sure someone else knows something about it and can tell more. And they go up and down because of popluation of worms...Not sure i believe either of them, but a couple reasons ive heard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've heard the same thing bowfin has about the aspen buds becoming bitter and unpalatable for grouse. I heard it speculated that the aspens make the chemical change to deal with the tent caterpillars which also rise and fall on a cycle. The only thing I'm sure of is that no on knows for sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The chemical is Tannin. And the Aspens do create it. And to me it is the best explanation going. The cycle is much less drastic in the south where the main food source is not Aspen buds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Read...

Walter J. Jakubas1, Gordon W. Gullion1 and Thomas P. Clausen2

(1) Department of Fisheries and Wildlife, University of Minnesota, 55108 St. Paul, Minnesota

(2) Department of Chemistry, University of Alaska, 99775 Fairbanks, Alaska

Received: 1 August 1988 Accepted: 20 September 1988

Abstract Quaking aspen (Populus tremuloides Michx.) staminate flower buds and the extended catkins are primary food resources for ruffed grouse (Bonasa umbellus). Winter feeding observations indicate that ruffed grouse select specific trees or clones of quaking aspen to feed in. Flower buds and catkins of quaking aspen were analyzed for secondary compounds (tannins, alkaloids, and phenolics) that might cause ruffed grouse to avoid trees with high levels of these compounds. Coniferyl benzoate, a compound that has not been previously found in quaking aspen, exists in significantly higher concentrations in buds from trees with no feeding history as compared to ruffed grouse feeding trees. Aspen catkins were also significantly lower in coniferyl benzoate than buds from the same tree. Ruffed grouse feeding preference was not related to the tannin or total phenolic levels found in buds or catkins. Buds from feeding trees had higher protein levels than trees with no feeding history; however, catkins did not differ from buds in protein concentration. The high use of extended catkins in the spring by ruffed grouse is probably due to a lower percentage of bud scale material in the catkin as opposed to the dormant bud. Bud scales contain almost all of the nontannin phenolics in catkins and dormant buds. A feeding strategy where bud scales are avoided may exist for other bird species that feed on quaking aspen. Dormant flower buds are significantly lower in protein-precipitable tannins than catkins and differ in secondary metabolite composition from other aspen foliage.

Key words Coniferyl benzoate - Populus tremuloides - Bonasa umbellus - Fringillidae - feeding behavior - secondary metabolites - tannins - phenols

Minnesota Agriculture Experiment Station Journal Series No. 16,953.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Newer studies suggest that the feeding patterns stay the same, but the higher levels of tannins could cause damage to the eggs come spring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

 Originally Posted By: Bowfin
I was told a theory from a wildlife biologist that the chemical make-up in aspen buds (grouse main food)goes through a up and down cycle. I can't remember the chemical, but it builds up over time in the aspen - high amounts of it start to make the aspen buds less palatable to grouse. When its at its highest, grouse will turn more to feeding on birch. The grouse pop may follow this cycle also. The biologist emphasized this was just a theory at this point.

Here in NE Minnesota we have plenty of good habitat due to forest management and logging - The habitat has improved for grouse over the last 30 years and yet we still have the pop swings so there may be something to this theory.

Anyways, cycle or not, this winter has got to be hard on grouse - not much snow since December has caused a hard crust on the snow. Several hard cold snaps (20-30 below with 30-50 below windchills)and the grouse have no snow to bury in for shelter - bummer!

there is plenty of snow and even with the crust, the snow in the woods is different. i have found the depressions were grouse have been in the snow. Barring a cold wet spring, they should do fine

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think last winter was more of a hard winter than this year. One could not even snowmobile last year. This year it has been good.

As for the grouse cycle thing, you just have to find them. That is what I have found.

I got birds when I went out and posted images of them on here. I only went out 4-5 times and had success all but one time I tried an off set area.

Get out and find them, they are around no matter what year it is.

Good luck..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Grouse cycle on approximate 10 year cycle (high to high), but year to year fluctuations do occur. Winter can impact.

Spring and early summers that are cool and rainy have a big impact on fall populations and hunter success.

Last peak was moderated (lowered) by three consecutive wet and cool springs. 1999 - 2001 could have been better than they were and they were great!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.


  • Your Responses - Share & Have Fun :)

    • Brianf.
      I'm not there, so I can't tell exactly what's going on but it looks like a large area of open water developed in the last day with all of the heavy snow on the east side of wake em up Narrows. These two photos are from my Ring Camera facing north towards Niles Point.  You can see what happened with all of snow that fell in the last three days, though the open water could have been wind driven. Hard to say. .  
    • SkunkedAgain
      Black Bay had great ice before but a few spots near rockpiles where there were spots of open water. It looks like the weight of the snow has created a little lake in the middle of the bay.  
    • LakeofthewoodsMN
      On the south end...   Thanks to some cold spring weather, ice fishing continues strong for those still ice fishing.  The bite remains very good.  Most resorts have pulled their fish houses off for the year, however, some still have fish houses out and others are allowing ATV and side by sides.  Check social media or call ahead to your favorite resort for specifics. Reports this week for walleyes and saugers remain excellent.   A nice mix of jumbo perch, pike, eelpout, and an occasional crappie, tullibee or sturgeon being reported by anglers. Jigging one line and using a live minnow on the second line is the way to go.  Green, glow red, pink and gold were good colors this week.     Monster pike are on a tear!  Good number of pike, some reaching over 45 inches long, being caught using tip ups with live suckers or dead bait such as smelt and herring in 8 - 14' of water.   As always, work through a resort or outfitter for ice road conditions.  Safety first always. Fish houses are allowed on the ice through March 31st, the walleye / sauger season goes through April 14th and the pike season never ends. On the Rainy River...  The river is opened up along the Nelson Park boat ramp in Birchdale, the Frontier boat ramp and Vidas boat ramp.  This past week, much of the open water skimmed over with the single digit overnight temps.   Areas of the river have popped open again and with temps getting warmer, things are shaping up for the last stretch through the rest of the spring season, which continues through April 14th.   Very good numbers of walleyes are in the river.  Reports this week, even with fewer anglers, have been good.  When temps warm up and the sun shines, things will fire up again.   Jigs with brightly colored plastics or jigs with a frozen emerald shiner have been the desired bait on the river.  Don't overlook slow trolling crankbaits upstream as well.   Good reports of sturgeon being caught on the river as well.  Sturgeon put the feed bag on in the spring.  The bite has been very good.  Most are using a sturgeon rig with a circle hook loaded with crawlers or crawlers / frozen emerald shiners. Up at the NW Angle...  Ice fishing is winding down up at the Angle.  Walleyes, saugers, and a number of various species in the mix again this week.  The bite is still very good with good numbers of fish.  The one two punch of jigging one line and deadsticking the second line is working well.   Check with Angle resorts on transport options from Young's Bay.  Call ahead for ice road guidelines.  
    • CigarGuy
      With the drifting, kind of hard to tell for sure, but I'm guessing about a foot and still lightly snowing. Cook end!
    • PSU
      How much snow did you get on Vermilion? 
    • Mike89
      lake here refroze too...  started opening again yesterday with the wet snow and wind...  very little ice left today...
    • Hookmaster
      A friend who has a cabin between Alex and Fergus said the lake he's on refroze. He texted me a pic from March 12th when it was open and one from 23rd when it wasn't. 🤯
    • SkunkedAgain
      I don't think that there has been any ice melt in the past few weeks on Vermilion. Things looked like a record and then Mother Nature swept in again.   I'll give my revised guess of April 21st
    • leech~~
      As I get older it's really not just about sending bullets down range.  Some of it's just the workmanship of the gun and the wow factor. The other two guns I have really wanted which I'll never have now because of their price, is a 8mm Jap Nambu and 9mm German Luger.   Just thought they always looked cool!  
    • jim curlee
      I had a guy hit me with a lightly used 1969 BAR, he wanted $1650 with an older Leupold scope. More than I think they are worth, I made an offer, he declined end of story.   You know if you look at the old brochures, a grade II BAR sold for $250 in the late 60s, $1650 would be a good return on your investment.    Why would anybody want a 50 year old gun, they are heavy, have wood stocks, and blued metal.  I guess mainly to keep their gun safes glued to the floor. lol   You can probably buy a stainless rifle that you never have to clean, with a synthetic stock you never have to refinish, is as light as a feather, and for half as much money, perfect.   I'm too old for a youth gun, although I've shrunk enough that it would probably fit. lol   No Ruger 10/44s.   Jim      
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.