Proposed 2008 Walleye Harvest

[MyThai]

We can send messages to our congressmen/congresswomen or even place blame on our past/current/or future presidents for not rescinding the treaties. This has been in the works for quite some time. Please follow this link for further details http://www.thecirclenews.org/nov05cover.html. I’m not trying to stir up anything. Simply stating the facts and in the end, it is all about equality between people. The Native Americans are living out their dreams and seeking representation in our country just like any of us. Again, I’m not trying to start anything and simply stating the facts.

[MuskieSlayer]

I don't have any problem going to the casino, or any local business, because when I do I know I'm helping the local economy. My cousin and many other non-natives support their families on casino wages. Anyone who thinks the casino only benefits the tribe and that the tribe has no interest in the health of the fishery has their head in the sand (shhh... don't tell anyone, but the tribe may have an interest in the resort business). Unlike many here, I will wait to pass judgment on this new allotment until more is known.

[Faner50]

Are we, technically speaking, our own worst enemy? Just about every boat or fish house out there is armed with technology much like a MINI NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC EXPEDITION. We have super bottom maps on GPS boxes, Vexi's, graphs, and now underwater cameras. My father who is 80 years old says to me "you aren't a fisherman, you are a technician. You boys should be wearing white lab coats when out on the lake".

For a few winters now, and also when the lake is flat during the summer, we have lowered cameras trying to find the structure on the structure. We found transition areas from rock to sand with the fish lined up right along those rocks. We marked those spots on the GPS (for future use) where you never would have found those spots in a million hours without the electronics.

Books, videos, in-fisherman, high tech fish line, hooks and rods all contribute to our technical fishing skill sets. Heck, my wife, who holds a spinning real reel upside down and is afraid of leeches, even nailed several big fish these past few years LOL.

Now you will never get my electronics away from me unless I am lying there dead. But, while I charge my batteries and lube up my kicker motor and run diagnostics on my electronics, I am NOT about to complain about quotas, slots and new regulations. I am just happy they allow me a day on the lake.

Faner

[late night]

If you go to the casino you have no right to complain about anything the tribe is doing or will do in the future. If you dont go to the casino and only want to go fishing you should be very afraid of what the future will hold as far as your rights to fish Lake Mille Lacs.

The tribe will not stop at 122,500 pounds, or even 150,000 pounds. They will always want more. The only reason they have the ability to keep winning court cases enabling them to net more and more fish is because of the money generated by the casino! Sure some people are employed by the tribe but how many more millions are spent in the local economy on non-tribal fishing! How many millions will be lost when you are unable to keep a fish or the fishing is so bad you cant catch a fish to release, like this winter.

Sure they have the Treaty of 1837 but lots of things going on around the reservation were never agreed to by that treaty. It never said commercial netting and legalized gambling. Todays angler might have the advantage of big boats, fancy electronics, graphit rods, and everything else but most of that stuff was manufatures and sold right here in Minnesota stimulating the economy. We do not have the ability to string out nets over spwanning walleyes and hored them by the thousands of pounds when they are at thier most vulnerable.

This is most definetly an US-THEM (fisherman/women, netters) debate. If you are not willing to voice your opinion you, or your children, will lose your right to fish Lake Mille Lacs someday.

By the way, as far as the tribe producing jobs. That is true as long as the position is not wanted by a tribal member first. There is no equal opportunity employment on the reservation.

[primetime49]

PROPER ECONOMIC RESOURCE MANAGEMENT

[ PERM ] GIVE THEM A READ ON WEB

MANY YEARS TRYING TO GET RIGHTS FOR FISHERMEN

[germanshorthairs]

I agree with late night- who cares if we use all that fancy equipment, we are not netting all the spawning females and keeping them. I feel bad for the resort owners and guides and etc.. but this will never change and resort owners need to realize this. They have chosen a very volatile business on a lake that is directly determined by the tribe-not the government.

[wackawalleye]

Call these guys a couple times a day.

Gov Pawlenty 651-296-3391

Mark Holstein 651-259-5022

We have been sold out again.

DNR

[jb426]

Wow, alot of hostility. I plan on waiting for a little while before passing judgement. From my experience on the lake this year and from what I've been reading here, the eyes are there. They just are not hitting our baits. Is this year abnormal for small perch? Wheather patterns differnet? El Nino? no snow in recent years? Seems to me there could be thousands of reasons for the lackluster bite. Lets not go off half cocked and not knowing all the facts. Believe this, the tribe understands the importance of the lake in conection to casino buissness. If the fishing dries up for mutiple years the tribe would lose multi millions in revenue. The mille lacs casino is not as accessible as Hinckley, Black bear, Mystic. People go to Mille lacs Casino because of Lake mille lacs. If the lake turns to [PoorWordUsage], people will go to a more acessible casino to spend money. Just my thoughts.

[polarsusd81]

Well stated JB426.

In order for one to form an opinion on the matter, they should understand all the facts. I think we all need to better understand the summary of the treaty before we start blaming one side or the other. Along with that, we have to understand the consequences of the fishing that was had and sometimes exploited on Mille Lacs in June and July of last year. The high mortality rate on released fish certainly has something to do with the current outlook on the lake. For now though, it would be nice to see the bashing of different groups to come to a stop, there really isn't any need for it. The decision for how the lake is managed is not coming from Tim Pawlenty or Mark Holstein, it is coming from a group of people that are very much involved with the day to day on the lake.

[wackawalleye]

Actually Tim and Mark are in direct charge of the DNR. If you would look at a flow chart, you would see them at the top. The people involved with the lake day to day are not involved and very much minimized in thier observations. There is much ignorance about the lake. The people in charge are under political presure. Their method of using irrelevent data as fact is one of the big problems. One test net in a 8-10 square mile area is going to have a few variables; but they treat it like they were netting a river where the fish must go thru the test nets.

Water temp, water level, wind, and yes bait fish are reasons for pattern changes in movement. Has anyone ever noticed a hungry fish is out looking (moving) for food and a full fish is laying on the bottom with dorsal fin laying flat? The abundance of yoy perch creates full walleyes and a slower bite. Who is going to prod a full walleye laying on the bottom to swim around a 8-10 square mile area looking for a test net? The DNR comment on the lower net counts was " Its a mystery why the fish numbers are down". Because they cannot figure out the obvious, they put the lake in condition #3 which is a lockdown. They take away 142,000 pounds of fish from the sportman and give the bands a raise of 22,500.

People need to get involved and voice thier frustration. There is enough apathy, ignorance and just wait and see what happens attitude to encourage the DNR to do more of the same which is nothing.

[goggy eyes]

well said

[jb426]

I never noticed the dorsal fin thing before. I'll have too pay attention on the aqua view. Thats what I love about this site, i just picked up a factoid about fishing. Thanks. And I agree with you, the first thing I thought of about the numbers in the net this summer or fall was that it's a awful big lake. Maybe they just didn't have the nets in the right spots. Anyway, that descion to olck down the lake or change slot limits has got to be a descion that is made with good info and alot of discussion because you are going to affect every buisness from the resortd to the bait shops, liquor stores, gas station, fix it shops, guides an d so forth. We do not want another red lake situation. Any other factiod about fishing in general is always welcome.

[Yamahopper]

It is good to see people starting to look at some facts like, Testing the fish population and why it is not reliable because of all the variables. How any decission will affect the local enconomy. The DNR needs to come up with beter facts if they state " A Mystery" They work for the people of MN any have the resources to do there part. Facts + discussion = Solution.

[mniess]

Casino's are not a factor in my thinking about this. I do not go to them on any consistent basis. How does supporting the casino effect the crappy treaty the gov. has entered into?

We should all be concerned about, and fight for, our rights as sportsmen (& women) on the lake. But bashing casino's or native american's just make us look bad.

[johncolson]

Excellent post wacka. We need to be calling the Govenor and the head of the DNR. I have already placed my calls. Please do the same.

[_FearNoFish4:20_]

I dont get how the Band wants to be self sufficiant why dont they plow thier own roads, maintain thier own city facilities, pay for license plates, pay for housing, the band is far from a equal opportunity employer. By putting your money into the casino they have the funds to pay for lawyers whom are not indians for some reason?You are basically supporting the way of life that they live.Eventually like eddys resort land will all be owned by the indians one by one

[tpg763]

Interested parties must support PERM & contact local Legislators such as Sondra Erickson,Princeton to find effective solutions.

[bturck]

I was at the Casino last weekend, go ahead rake me over the coals. My kids had given us concert tickets to see the Oak Ridge Boys and in walking through the Casino I can tell you that the majority of the people I saw probably were not fishermen or women. They were folks, with families,elderly, and those who arrived by bus from various parts who came to spend some time and while away the hours playing the penny slots. God forbid Mille Lacs should fold up, cave in or whatever that Casino will still make a ton of money. Not saying that fisherpersons do not spend money there, but it is not supported by rod holding, fishing license holders as much as has been stated here. I would venture that a major majority don't know any Ultra Shack from a Pak Shack. By the way the concert was fantastic, first time there in years. Good luck and hang on. Bill

[Legend_89]

I missed something here. I scanned this post and missed the "Dorsal Fin Factoid". Can someone repeat it or point out where it is at? Thanxs

[late night]

Hey LEGEND 89, Look at WACKAWALLEYES post on page four.

[Buck_Hunter04]

It all comes down to, wether they want their Hunting and Fishing Rights or their Casino's. The only people that see a problem with this situation are the people that are REAllY in touch with nature. Seems to me others have have lost site of that goal over the years.

[HoleHopper]

If my memery serves me right I think the Federal Burough of Indian Afairs funded the lawsuit agaist the state, not gameing revenue. Thats your tax dallars my freinds. Then after it was all over they sued the state for there court costs. Correct me if I am wrong...... It has been a while.

Anyways what bothers me most about this whole deal is that instead of moveing forward with equallity, promoting good relations, and helping the indian peaple as a whole, they have created an envirement that fuels divitions, steriotypes, and just plain raceism, and altimatelly hurt the indian peaple as a whole. Whether realized or not.... And that my freinds hurts us all. The effects of that decition are further reaching then the boundries of the ceeded territory and the shores of millacs.

[late night]

In my mind I do not judge the native people based on the facts of netting. Groups of both sides of the debate want more. The state has cut the allowable harvest for non-tribale fisherman. I realy dont care about that part. That should premote better fishing as far as numbers caught and released making for a fun day on the water. The state agreeing to let the tribe keep more does bother me. If the safe harvest limit does need to be lowered because the fishery is showing low numbers of fish then fine, cut back the limit for everybody, netters included.

I honestly believe the state has lost thier backbone dealing with the tribe because they dont want to be labeled "Rasist." Everytime a person argues against the tribe the race card is played. Even on this forum people post "Lets keep it civil and dont judge." Yeah that is right but this is your rights they are taking away and fisherman/women have every right to be upset and we should make our voice herd.

I was born and raised right here in Minnesota. In my mind that makes me just as "native" as anybody born with Ojibwe blood lines. Nobody was alive at the time all these treaties were signed and the world is definately not the same as it was in 1837. Part of the beauty of our Constitution is that it can be changed to fit the times we live in. I think its time to stop hiding under a treaty that is outdated and serves no purpose.

We all live within the boundries of the United States and we should all play by the same rules. I believe that is called "Affirmative Action" or "Equal Opportunity" and it should go both ways.

[johncolson]

Excellent Post. We all need to be active in this. Please call DNR leaders.

[computerboy]

For those of you who have contacted the DNR and State officials, what have you been asking for specifically? Are you looking for a special Spring netting/electrofishing survey to invalidate the fall test net numbers, and then adjust the Safe Harvest Level accordingly?

The reason I'm asking is because the Safe Harvest Level was lowered due to the rather alarming decline in walleye numbers during the fall netting surveys. With no other hard data to base their decision on, wouldn't it be wise to error on the side of caution and assume the fall numbers are accurate?

While I’d like to believe the walleye population in Mille Lacs is stable, healthy, and comparable to previous years, the surveys suggest otherwise. A reduction in the Safe Harvest Level would seem to be wise and prudent, no?

[chrismackmn]

here is the root of the issue.

This is the last year that I go to Mille Lacs unless things change. 12 of my friends go fishing on Mille Lacs and for the 2nd time in 3 years we got shutout and last year we had 2 pout and 1 eye come through the ice. I don't expect to catch my limit, I also don't expect to catch fish after fish. I do expect to see SOMETHING on the camera. from noon on Fri-9 am on Sunday we saw nothing.

I know getting out is the goal and fish are a bonus but not seeing anything is crazy. The Casino/resort owners/business owners depend on me and my friends coming up there a few times a year and spending a few grand. Guess what, next year we are heading to LOW. Not that we expect to catch fish, but we would like to see something come through the ice.

The owners on Mille Lacs do a great job but in the end, we want to catch fish. If i wanted to share a hotel room with a bunch of guys, I would stay at a hotel. It is cheaper and easier to get to.

If the tribe doesn't see that pulling out all of the big females before they spawn is a problem, then we are heading for a repeat of Red Lake. Sure the crappies were great but it wasn't a natural explosion of fish. It was caused by decimating the walleye population without worrying about 5, 10, 20, 100 years down the road. Millions of dollars later the walleyes are back but it will happen again if people don't watch it.

Netting was written in the contracts but times have changed. Now it isn't even fair to the fish with nylon nets, 18 foot 150 hp boats and lights. I am not saying not to use today's technologies, in fact I am all for it. it is safer and easier to use technology. I just think it is too easy to scoop up big walleyes that are in the shallows spawning. Instead of letting the Indians net during spawning season, why not net during the summer? It wouldn't be nearly as easy.

[johncolson]

Computer Boy, the lowering of the citizen allotment is not the issue and certainly not a problem. If the DNR thinks that it is necessary, then I am on board.

The issue is the major slap in the face of all of us by lowering our allotment 100,000+ pounds and INCREASING the indian netting allotment 25,000+ pounds.

When I called Pawlenty and the DNR head my only question is what is the rational for lowering the citizens allotment and raising the indians allotment. It seems the only logical thing would be raising and lowering then in conjunction with each other.

By the way, I called Friday and have not received a call back from either. I will call again soon. All of you, please pick up the phone and ask these simple questions in a respectful manner. We need answers and we need changes.

[MuskieSlayer]

 Originally Posted By: chrismackmn

If the tribe doesn't see that pulling out all of the big females before they spawn is a problem, then we are heading for a repeat of Red Lake.

A common misconception, but the time of the harvest is irrelevant. From a management perspective all that matters is the removal of the fish from the population, regardless of the season. If you harvest a fish in February, or any other time of the year, that fish will never spawn again.

[computerboy]

Thanks for responding John, and I hear what you're saying. I think you speak for a lot of people on the board. The problem for the DNR and tribal leaders is they have to walk a very fine line with their constituents (i.e. state anglers and band members respectively). The Mille Lacs band is entitled to 50% of the tribes safe harvest allocation. I'm sure the other bands in the GLIFWC are pushing tribal leaders for larger quotas.The tribal leaders obviously yielded to the pressure of their constituents, and they did it at the worst possible time.

In any other year, the increase would have probably gone unnoticed. But there is legal precedent for raising the band's quota so there's very little the DNR can do about it. It's just unfortunate that the band chose to raise their quota during the famine instead of the feast. It is obviously a very unpopular decision with state anglers, and has re-opened the wounds of the 1999 Supreme Court ruling for many.

I do think it's important that our voices be heard and I commend all of you that have done just that. We have a large stake in this, and we shouldn't just lie down. Tribal leaders aren't dumb; they know that any major increase in harvest quota for band members will get a lot of bad press and reflect negatively on the tribe as a whole. The more we voice our opposition, the worse it will be for the tribe. I believe that if we can collectively raise our concerns in a respectful, intelligent, and cohesive manner, we will be able to sway public opinion in our favor.

Keep fighting the good fight John….

CB

[computerboy]

I should clarify my post a bit here...the right of the band to 50% of the safe harvest was based on material I have been reading over the past few days and not necessarily reflective of the current 5-year agreement. I beleive that figure is what the Mille Lacs band of Ojibwe is entitled to. In other words, the Mille Lacs band get's half of the total tribal harvest and the other half is split among the 7 other tribes that make up the GLIFWC.

In either case, let's keep the chatter going boys. I’d love to hear other opinions on this.