Guests - If You want access to member only forums on FM. You will gain access only when you Sign-in or Sign-Up on Fishing Minnesota.

It's easy - LOOK UPPER right menu.

  • Announcements

    • Rick

      Members Only Fluid Forum View   08/08/2017

      Fluid forum view allows members only to get right to the meat of this community; the topics. You can toggle between your preferred forum view just below to the left on the main forum entrance. You will see three icons. Try them out and see what you prefer.   Fluid view allows you, if you are a signed up member, to see the newest topic posts in either all forums (select none or all) or in just your favorite forums (select the ones you want to see when you come to Fishing Minnesota). It keeps and in real time with respect to Topic posts and lets YOU SELECT YOUR FAVORITE FORUMS. It can make things fun and easy. This is especially true for less experienced visitors raised on social media. If you, as a members want more specific topics, you can even select a single forum to view. Let us take a look at fluid view in action. We will then break it down and explain how it works in more detail.   The video shows the topic list and the forum filter box. As you can see, it is easy to change the topic list by changing the selected forums. This view replaces the traditional list of categories and forums.   Of course, members only can change the view to better suit your way of browsing.   You will notice a “grid” option. We have moved the grid forum theme setting into the main forum settings. This makes it an option for members only to choose. This screenshot also shows the removal of the forum breadcrumb in fluid view mode. Fluid view remembers your last forum selection so you don’t lose your place when you go back to the listing. The benefit of this feature is easy to see. It removes a potential barrier of entry for members only. It puts the spotlight on topics themselves, and not the hierarchical forum structure. You as a member will enjoy viewing many forums at once and switching between them without leaving the page. We hope that fluid view, the new functionality is an asset that you enjoy .
Sign in to follow this  
Scott M

Interesting Story on 98 Vikings

Recommended Posts

Scott M

From Jeremy Green, director of pro scouting for Scouts, Inc. and son of Dennis Green.

ESPNews.

The New England Patriots are just 33 points from breaking the season scoring record of 556 points set by the 1998 Minnesota Vikings, but interestingly enough, these teams don't have similar offenses.

But for all their differences, there is one common thread tying these two amazing offenses together -- Randy Moss.

After all, it was Moss who made Dennis Green change his offense in 1998. (Full disclosure: For those who don't know, Dennis Green is my dad.) Those Vikings moved away from some of the one-RB, two-TE, two-WR sets they used as their base offense. Why? Because during the '98 NFL draft, a young, talented receiver with top-five talent from Marshall named Randy Moss fell down the draft board and landed in the Vikings' lap at No. 21. Minnesota already had Cris Carter, who had gone to five straight Pro Bowls, and Jake Reed, but the Vikings quickly chose value over need. The day after Moss was drafted, they revamped their offense and became a team whose base set would be 1 RB, 1 TE and 3 WRs.

"It was apparent from our first mini-camp practice he was going to be a superstar," Green said about Moss.

With the speedy Moss -- who ran about a 4.2 40 in 1998 at age 21 -- in the mix, it became apparent another change was needed. This one was at quarterback. It was obvious in training camp that Randall Cunningham was going to be a better fit for the offense, even though Brad Johnson was the starter at the time.

"He had that big-time arm that could really stretch the field," Green said of Cunningham. "He had that athleticism to stay alive in the pocket, and his ability to make plays on the move was a perfect fit for what we were trying to do offensively at the time."

What Minnesota wanted to do was stretch the field and force mismatches. Surprisingly, though, it wasn't the Pro Bowler Carter who keyed things and made Moss special.

"No, I would say the opposite," Green said.

It was Moss who opened things up for everyone else. Moss' presence on the outside allowed the Vikings to move Carter inside with their three-receiver package. That meant on early downs against teams that did not go to their sub-packages, Carter would get to work on a LB or safety. On passing downs, he often got to work against a team's No. 3 corner. Back then, Green would simply say, "Pick your poison."

Teams that tried to play the Vikings in man coverage would often see Moss take them deep over the top. Teams that opted to play more Cover 2 got a huge dose of Carter catching balls in the open areas. As Green said, "They were the perfect complement to one another."

So even back in 1998, it was Moss opening up the offense. Does that scenario sound familiar? Jump ahead to 2007 and it is still Moss who is opening up the field for everyone else. Moss frees up Donte' Stallworth, Jabar Gaffney and Moss' new Cris Carter, slot receiver Wes Welker.

Simply put, he's still pretty much the same player he was back then. Asked what differences he saw from the '98 Moss to today's Moss, Green said, "Not much. He is not as fast as he was back then."

Then he kind of chuckled and added, "Instead of being a 4.2 guy, he is now a 4.4 guy. Randy can still get vertical and he can still take it away from a defensive back in the NFL with his ability to go up and get the ball at its highest point. "

So what if he runs a 4.4? He's still one of the faster receivers in the NFL. And he can still make a good offense great. But while Moss is the common thread between these two offenses, the differences are just as interesting.

When talking about the New England Patriots, you must start with the QB. Green had some great offenses when he was with the Vikings, but there was rarely stability at quarterback. He won games with Johnson, Cunningham, Warren Moon, Daunte Culpepper and even Jeff George at the helm.

"It was the system that made the offense go," Green said.

But it's different for the Patriots. This offense goes through Tom Brady.

"I have never seen a QB play as well as Brady has played this season, and I have been around one of the greatest," said Green, who used to coach Joe Montana in San Francisco.

During that record-setting '98 season, the Vikings began the season with Johnson, but he was injured in Week 1 and in came Cunningham. It became apparent early on that Cunningham was going to be a better fit for what would become a new-look offense for the Vikings that year.

But there were other differences as well.

The Patriots use a lot more empty sets and shotgun in their offense. When I asked him why Minnesota didn't use more empty sets, Green said just two words: "Robert Smith."

Smith was the final cog in that offensive machine. He really made it work.

"Even with as explosive as we were throwing the football, we had a 1,200-yard rusher in Robert Smith," Green said.

That's the major difference between the two offenses. The Patriots rarely established much of a run game this season. Smith, on the other hand, was a major part of the Vikings' success. As Minnesota continued to put up big offensive numbers that season, teams started to play more Cover 2 in an attempt to take away the deep ball to Moss. When the Vikings saw Cover 2, they would often try to chase teams out of it with Smith. When Smith was running well, it would force teams to abandon the Cover 2 and bring a safety down into the box.

And unli ke what the Patriots are facing, the Vikings never saw the kind of blitz pressure New England has seen in recent weeks.

"Teams were not as quick to blitz us because we had a mobile QB in Cunningham, a back in Robert Smith who could take a draw to the house, had an effective screen game, and blitz pressure often meant Moss would be one on one on the outside," Green said.

Green said both offensive lines excelled. Minnesota had maybe a little bit more of a high-profile line with high picks in Todd Steussie and Korey Stringer, where the Patriots are a little more of a blue-collar group. But "both play excellent together, and that is the most important factor in offensive line play," Green said.

So after comparing both offenses, I had just one more question: Are the New England Patriots the best team you have ever witnessed?

" The 1984 and 1989 San Francisco 49ers were excellent football teams," he said.

"Yes, excellent teams," I told him, "but you did not answer my question. "

He paused for one second and said, "Yes, they are the best team I have ever seen."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
zamboni

What makes me absolutely sick, aside from the 98 Vikings NOT making the Super Bowl, was the fact that a year after going 15-1, and our only loss being to the Bucs, whom we had to play twice that year, were moved to a different division. If they had done that one year earlier, or better yet, in the 70's when they became a franchise (I mean Tampa Bay- Central Division?!?!?!?) the Vikes clearly would have gone 16-0.

BTW- Anyone have a feeling the sale of the Vikes was pretty much complete, and McCombs and Al Davis had an under the table trade involving cash to McCombs that noone but them knows about? That trade for the premier WR in NFL history for a older MLB still seems odd to me......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jltimm

Man the Vikings fans can dig up the past, and after alot of ands, ifs, and buts the Vikings could have... And how many times are we gonna here about- there is always next year? confused.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
greebs

it's too bad that Randy has the attitude that he does. Despite what little they got for him, he was basically of declining value in their system at the time of his departure and it seemed obvious that he was no longer interested in being a viking. Does anybody think for a minute that he'd be doing much for the vikes this year with TJ at qb? If he were a vike, I'd guess he'd have numbers very similar to his seasons with the raiders and might even be milking an injury by now and not even playing.

He is probably the most classic example that I can think of in terms of an athlete who can do so much if he is happy but will basically quit on the team if he's not. There are just a few teams out there where he'd be performing like he is this year and the vikes ain't one of them.

Some day he might just look back and regret his attitude because with the right attitude I think that only possible injuries would have kept him from breaking every record that Jerry Rice ever set. Playing with the Pats gives him an outside shot but he'll have to have a few more years like this year to have that shot. Now if Tom Brady were the Vikes qb, then we'd have something to talk about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scott M

I see what you mean about Moss. Carter played just as hard on those 6-10 teams as he did on the 15-1 team, can't say the same about Moss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bgreen82

i still believe the vikes offense was greater than the pats of this year. more stable, more balanced, and if the pats dont run up scores like they did the vikes still have the record.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jltimm

If you call 1-2 minute drives (1 long bomb) balanced, or stable, then yes the queens had a good offense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bgreen82

to start the game thats how it went, then when they went one over the top to moss, thats when carter started getting the crosses and the outs, and when they would go 20 yards at a time with draws to robert smith.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  



  • Posts

    • leech~~
      2 Trout stamps.  Did I miss something and need to go back and get another?
    • Wanderer
      The 200 foot rule gets me a little but it has to be defined somehow what is occupied and what isn’t.   So for a wheelhouse we get to buy tabs to have on the road and a sticker to have it on the ice and go away for a little while.  Seems pretty close to double taxation since any LE can find out who the owner is from the current plate. Plus the spear shack that I might want to keep up over the weekend.  2 tags plus license. Combination sports license 2 trout stamps Waterfowl stamps Pheasant stamp  Turkey license (stamp now included) Deer license for all seasons   The bucket is getting heavy with all the drops in it.  
    • ib_jigged
      Really no different than using your boat.  $14,000 fish house and $14.33/year is going to kill you?? What gets me is at the lake we are at in the summer, mostly out of state people in the campground and all of their boats, never leave that lake and they are all licensed out of state and not in MN.  That is a chunk of money the state does not see.
    • Fishing Frenzy
      Great news to hear! Hopefully it will make enough tonight and hope it isn't going to get as warm as they say. Fingers crossed!
    • CLPDB
      Was hoping to come up with a 1/2 ton and a 16ft wheel house Dec. 1st.  Any thoughts if the ice will be think enough to go out of Hillmens?
    • timjones
      Took a drive around Lake Osakis earlier. It appears the cold and calm winds we had last night made a lot of ice. From what I could tell it appeared the lake was locked up except there was a small open area in Manthey's Bay that had a couple trumpeter swans swimming around and another small area in front of Holiday Resort that had some ducks swimming around. The rest was all ice, thin ice. Don't know if it will hold up over the next 5 days. High of 38 tomorrow, 46 and showers on Friday with high winds, 36 Saturday, 44 Sunday and 44 Monday. The lows over night aren't going to dip very low. If it was a few inches thick I wouldn't be to concerned, but as thin as it is, could be bad.
    • PRO-V
      Not by itself it won't but they raised the price on licenses for everything. Once you add it all up I'll bet you never got that big of a raise at your job. I paid for an ATV license since they first came out and we didn't get squat for it for over 20 years. What a joke, not to mention debacles like Mille Lacs Lake management. AAARRGGHHH!!  I gotta quit now before I pop a vein.
    • JerkinLips
      Thanks for the updates.  Think I will play it safe and wait until Thursday, November 30 to go out from McKinley Park.
    • Finnish Flash
      7" of good clear ice in the couple holes I drilled in Pike Bay this morning.   
    • cookie129
      not sure why its not showing I'm posting? Anyway walking out on the south shore gets you in deeper water quicker. Yes they do bite on red lake during the dark. I hardly ever go on the lake early ice unless Buddy Hillmen needs my help. Once I drive on the lake with blue thunder I will be on her just about everyday un  tell mid march if mother nature cooperates.