Guests - If You want access to member only forums on FM. You will gain access only when you Sign-in or Sign-Up on Fishing Minnesota.

It's easy - LOOK UPPER right menu.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Scott M

Interesting Story on 98 Vikings

8 posts in this topic

From Jeremy Green, director of pro scouting for Scouts, Inc. and son of Dennis Green.

ESPNews.

The New England Patriots are just 33 points from breaking the season scoring record of 556 points set by the 1998 Minnesota Vikings, but interestingly enough, these teams don't have similar offenses.

But for all their differences, there is one common thread tying these two amazing offenses together -- Randy Moss.

After all, it was Moss who made Dennis Green change his offense in 1998. (Full disclosure: For those who don't know, Dennis Green is my dad.) Those Vikings moved away from some of the one-RB, two-TE, two-WR sets they used as their base offense. Why? Because during the '98 NFL draft, a young, talented receiver with top-five talent from Marshall named Randy Moss fell down the draft board and landed in the Vikings' lap at No. 21. Minnesota already had Cris Carter, who had gone to five straight Pro Bowls, and Jake Reed, but the Vikings quickly chose value over need. The day after Moss was drafted, they revamped their offense and became a team whose base set would be 1 RB, 1 TE and 3 WRs.

"It was apparent from our first mini-camp practice he was going to be a superstar," Green said about Moss.

With the speedy Moss -- who ran about a 4.2 40 in 1998 at age 21 -- in the mix, it became apparent another change was needed. This one was at quarterback. It was obvious in training camp that Randall Cunningham was going to be a better fit for the offense, even though Brad Johnson was the starter at the time.

"He had that big-time arm that could really stretch the field," Green said of Cunningham. "He had that athleticism to stay alive in the pocket, and his ability to make plays on the move was a perfect fit for what we were trying to do offensively at the time."

What Minnesota wanted to do was stretch the field and force mismatches. Surprisingly, though, it wasn't the Pro Bowler Carter who keyed things and made Moss special.

"No, I would say the opposite," Green said.

It was Moss who opened things up for everyone else. Moss' presence on the outside allowed the Vikings to move Carter inside with their three-receiver package. That meant on early downs against teams that did not go to their sub-packages, Carter would get to work on a LB or safety. On passing downs, he often got to work against a team's No. 3 corner. Back then, Green would simply say, "Pick your poison."

Teams that tried to play the Vikings in man coverage would often see Moss take them deep over the top. Teams that opted to play more Cover 2 got a huge dose of Carter catching balls in the open areas. As Green said, "They were the perfect complement to one another."

So even back in 1998, it was Moss opening up the offense. Does that scenario sound familiar? Jump ahead to 2007 and it is still Moss who is opening up the field for everyone else. Moss frees up Donte' Stallworth, Jabar Gaffney and Moss' new Cris Carter, slot receiver Wes Welker.

Simply put, he's still pretty much the same player he was back then. Asked what differences he saw from the '98 Moss to today's Moss, Green said, "Not much. He is not as fast as he was back then."

Then he kind of chuckled and added, "Instead of being a 4.2 guy, he is now a 4.4 guy. Randy can still get vertical and he can still take it away from a defensive back in the NFL with his ability to go up and get the ball at its highest point. "

So what if he runs a 4.4? He's still one of the faster receivers in the NFL. And he can still make a good offense great. But while Moss is the common thread between these two offenses, the differences are just as interesting.

When talking about the New England Patriots, you must start with the QB. Green had some great offenses when he was with the Vikings, but there was rarely stability at quarterback. He won games with Johnson, Cunningham, Warren Moon, Daunte Culpepper and even Jeff George at the helm.

"It was the system that made the offense go," Green said.

But it's different for the Patriots. This offense goes through Tom Brady.

"I have never seen a QB play as well as Brady has played this season, and I have been around one of the greatest," said Green, who used to coach Joe Montana in San Francisco.

During that record-setting '98 season, the Vikings began the season with Johnson, but he was injured in Week 1 and in came Cunningham. It became apparent early on that Cunningham was going to be a better fit for what would become a new-look offense for the Vikings that year.

But there were other differences as well.

The Patriots use a lot more empty sets and shotgun in their offense. When I asked him why Minnesota didn't use more empty sets, Green said just two words: "Robert Smith."

Smith was the final cog in that offensive machine. He really made it work.

"Even with as explosive as we were throwing the football, we had a 1,200-yard rusher in Robert Smith," Green said.

That's the major difference between the two offenses. The Patriots rarely established much of a run game this season. Smith, on the other hand, was a major part of the Vikings' success. As Minnesota continued to put up big offensive numbers that season, teams started to play more Cover 2 in an attempt to take away the deep ball to Moss. When the Vikings saw Cover 2, they would often try to chase teams out of it with Smith. When Smith was running well, it would force teams to abandon the Cover 2 and bring a safety down into the box.

And unli ke what the Patriots are facing, the Vikings never saw the kind of blitz pressure New England has seen in recent weeks.

"Teams were not as quick to blitz us because we had a mobile QB in Cunningham, a back in Robert Smith who could take a draw to the house, had an effective screen game, and blitz pressure often meant Moss would be one on one on the outside," Green said.

Green said both offensive lines excelled. Minnesota had maybe a little bit more of a high-profile line with high picks in Todd Steussie and Korey Stringer, where the Patriots are a little more of a blue-collar group. But "both play excellent together, and that is the most important factor in offensive line play," Green said.

So after comparing both offenses, I had just one more question: Are the New England Patriots the best team you have ever witnessed?

" The 1984 and 1989 San Francisco 49ers were excellent football teams," he said.

"Yes, excellent teams," I told him, "but you did not answer my question. "

He paused for one second and said, "Yes, they are the best team I have ever seen."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What makes me absolutely sick, aside from the 98 Vikings NOT making the Super Bowl, was the fact that a year after going 15-1, and our only loss being to the Bucs, whom we had to play twice that year, were moved to a different division. If they had done that one year earlier, or better yet, in the 70's when they became a franchise (I mean Tampa Bay- Central Division?!?!?!?) the Vikes clearly would have gone 16-0.

BTW- Anyone have a feeling the sale of the Vikes was pretty much complete, and McCombs and Al Davis had an under the table trade involving cash to McCombs that noone but them knows about? That trade for the premier WR in NFL history for a older MLB still seems odd to me......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man the Vikings fans can dig up the past, and after alot of ands, ifs, and buts the Vikings could have... And how many times are we gonna here about- there is always next year? confused.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it's too bad that Randy has the attitude that he does. Despite what little they got for him, he was basically of declining value in their system at the time of his departure and it seemed obvious that he was no longer interested in being a viking. Does anybody think for a minute that he'd be doing much for the vikes this year with TJ at qb? If he were a vike, I'd guess he'd have numbers very similar to his seasons with the raiders and might even be milking an injury by now and not even playing.

He is probably the most classic example that I can think of in terms of an athlete who can do so much if he is happy but will basically quit on the team if he's not. There are just a few teams out there where he'd be performing like he is this year and the vikes ain't one of them.

Some day he might just look back and regret his attitude because with the right attitude I think that only possible injuries would have kept him from breaking every record that Jerry Rice ever set. Playing with the Pats gives him an outside shot but he'll have to have a few more years like this year to have that shot. Now if Tom Brady were the Vikes qb, then we'd have something to talk about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see what you mean about Moss. Carter played just as hard on those 6-10 teams as he did on the 15-1 team, can't say the same about Moss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i still believe the vikes offense was greater than the pats of this year. more stable, more balanced, and if the pats dont run up scores like they did the vikes still have the record.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you call 1-2 minute drives (1 long bomb) balanced, or stable, then yes the queens had a good offense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

to start the game thats how it went, then when they went one over the top to moss, thats when carter started getting the crosses and the outs, and when they would go 20 yards at a time with draws to robert smith.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Posts

    • PSU
      Hello Muzzy,   Lots of good spots close to Oak Narrows. I will let the experts pipe in, but I've been doing well in 20-30 feet of water in the Frazer / Smarts Bay area. I would trust your sonar and find spots off reefs and follow down to 20-30 feet. Either jig or Lindy has been working for me with a Rainbow minnow 
    • Mike89
    • BulldogInTC
      Finally making it up this weekend to the cabin since January.  Looks like hit and miss weather conditions over the weekend, but I'm hoping to get some decent time in the boat...as long as the father-in-law isn't cracking the whip too hard  . That's good to hear about the success in Frazier, Matt.  Always seems like we are fighting for walleyes, but I'm hoping to change that and try a few new spots this weekend.  Hope everyone has a safe and good fishing holiday weekend.
    • Muzzy33
      We are from Indiana (land of terrible eye fishing). Staying in a cabin in the oak narrows June 3-10.  This is our fourth year fishing the big V, but have always fished the westside.  Never had great walleye fishing yet.  We normally stay father on the westside like around wolf Bay or Norwegian, so we wanted to find a cabin closer to the Eastside.  Figured the narrows would be closer so we can fish spots on the west side that we've already learned and also venture to the east where I've heard the walleye fishing is better for keeper walleyes.  I'm looking for any tips or locations to try.  Maybe someone could help us out.  It would be much appreciated.  Thank you
    • Muzzy33
      We are from Indiana (land of terrible eye fishing). Staying in a cabin in the oak narrows June 3-10.  This is our fourth year fishing the big V, but have always fished the westside.  Never had great walleye fishing yet.  We normally stay father on the westside like around wolf Bay or Norwegian, so we wanted to find a cabin closer to the Eastside.  Figured the narrows would be closer so we can fish spots on the west side that we've already learned and also venture to the east where I've heard the walleye fishing is better for keeper walleyes.  I'm looking for any tips or locations to try.  Maybe someone could help us out.  It would be much appreciated.  Thank you
    • Sherman
      Holland
    • 1eyeReD
      Thanks LucasMN!! I will throw you a personal fishin report when I'm done.
    • Luke jones
      Hi everyone I am new to this chat. I was wondering what stage you think the panfish are in right now anything helps. Thanks Luke
    • LucasMN
      There is spots in the parking lot for roughly 7 vehicles with trailers. When that's full, you can park on the side of the road leading up to the access (I don't know if it's legal but have never seen tickets given out nor have I received one). The access is fairly steep but  in good shape. A 16ft will go up/down and launch no problem. 20'+ fish houses can make it up and down.    The access on the south side (past the Bear trap) on Highway 71 has much more parking and is a flat landing with 2 docks.   Water clarity is good. Fishing is mediocre. 
    • Dune27
      Haven't tried fishing there but I would love to go there someday.