Pattern Master choke or Use Black cloud instead?

[wallter]

Just got some B-day $$ and need to buy something. From what I'm hearing is that I can either buy a PM and extend my range with normal steel shot. Or, I can buy black cloud and extend my range. I'm guessing if I keep my gun clean, that the b. cloud will work fine.

Which way would you go?

[WollMan]

I went with the pattern master. noticed the difference right away. I like to burn through shells when i am hunting so i like to get cheeper steel. BC is like $20+ per box. Pattern master over the long run will be better for the check book. What type of hunting are you doing? are you shooting over decoys, pass shooting, ducks or geese only? I have found that the extended range PM is great for 25+ yard shots, but if any closer you better hit them in the head.

[wallter]

Right now thinking about late goose season but want to here about performancce in other situations.

[Sartell Angler]

why do you need to extend your range???

Just decoy 'em in close and you can kill 'em fine with a 20 gauge

[ICE_TEAM_DREAMER]

THIS IS AN INTERESTING DEBATE. I MYSELF HAVE USED NEITHER THE PM OR BC. EVERYONE OF MY HUNTING BUDDIES USE A PM OR ANOTHER SIMILAR TO IT. THIS YEAR I HAVE HUNTED WITH TWO OF MY FRIENDS WHO HAVE USED THE BC AND I HAVE NO HESITATION IN SAYING THAT IT CAN BE ABSOLUTELY DEVESTATING. ESPECIALLY EARLY SEASON. HOWEVER THE PM ARE ALSO VERY EFFECTIVE AS WELL. MY FRIENDS WONT HUNT WITHOUT THEIRS. I WOULDNT HESITATE TO PURCHASE A PM. I JUST NEVER HAVE. (CANT MY MODIFIED CHOKE OUT OF THE GOLDHUNTER) IMO TRY THE PATTERN MASTER FIRST AND SEE WHAT U THINK. JUST MY 2 CENTS

[hanson]

Couple things to think about before you make any decision IMO.

#1 - Get out and pattern your gun 1st with your current choke and various brands of steel. Shoot Federal, Winchester, Kent, etc and see which brand patterns best out of your gun first. I'm willing to bet you'll find a shell that patterns well. Maybe the Black Cloud won't pattern right out of your gun. You need to find that out first.

#2 - Hit the range and shoot some trap and sporting clays. It doesn't take much range shooting to really sharpen up your shot.

#3 - Dial in #1 & #2 and you'll be killing ducks and geese dead with the best of them. If you still want to spend money after that, give a Patternmaster a try.

I've honestly never felt like I've been handicapped because I don't shoot through a high buck choke tube. Darn, I don't shoot a high buck gun either.

[Scott M]

Great advice Hanson. New and upgraded equipment is fun but is no match for honed skill and being in-tune with one's gun.

Next spring I plan to do some trap and sporting clay shooting to get a little closer with my shottie. My shooting is way more likely to improve with that rather than purchasing the next high end gun, choke, or load.

[RoosterRedneck]

While out blind hunting this year 3 out of the 4 have the patternmaster. I have on ein my Browning gold and the guy who didn't have one in the group also has the same gun. We were both shooting the same shells. Around 9AM we were standing around the deeks and I decided to go get the truck and left my gun in the blind. The other 3 were standing around BS'ing and as I approached the truck here comes a flock of geese. I see those guys scramble to the blinds and my friend with the same gun/shells as me gets into my blind. The geese come in and they get a couple. After he shot the 3 shells in his gun he picked mine up and shoots 2 more geese with 2 shots (you can imagine the geese are pretty far away by then). I get back with the truck and he tells me this story followed by I'm definately getting one of those chokes for next year. The funny thing is we have told him for years to get one, but like many of the nay-sayers it took him actually using it to believe. I feel 100% confident telling someone that if they buy this choke they WILL kill more birds. You still need to understand how to lead birds and the other fundamentals that go along with bird hunting.

[Augusta]

Can someone tell me the difference between the ported and unported choke tubes? Whats the purpose? Thanks

[RoosterRedneck]

I know when Browning put the Boss on some of thier rifles it was to reduce the kick of the gun. I'm not sure if it's the same for the choke tubes or not.

[ec30_06]

Ported choke tubes will reduce recoil some, but I think the main idea behind most of them is to slow the wad down. I know they are louder than a normal choke. I get good patterns from my factory modified so I haven't bought any aftermarket tubes yet. I would pattern black cloud before you go hunting with it. It did not pattern well in my gun.

[bassman222]

Quote:

---

From what I'm hearing is that I can either buy a PM and extend my range with normal steel shot. Or, I can buy black cloud and extend my range.

Which way would you go?

---

I think you hearing wrong.....neither will extend you range.

I would defiantly go for a choke tube though, just a TERROR instead of a PM.

[Sartell Angler]

I crush ducks and geese w/out a PM, Terror Tube, or that Black Cloud GIMMICK. Get good at shooting birds on the wing over your decoys and you're set. Period.

[WollMan]

I think you hearing wrong.....neither will extend you range.

I would defiantly go for a choke tube though, just a TERROR instead of a PM.

---

I know that the PM extends my range. I have had cleaner kills at 35-45 yards this year than i have had with my factory tubes. For me they extend range and keep my pattern tighter, maybe it is just my gun, or maybe i am more confident with the PM in cause it works. Not all guns shoot the same, so depending on what you have at the end of the barrel and what you have in your chamber can be different in my gun than it is in yours. Dont be too quick to say that they do not extend your range, they might not in your gun with your loads, but they very well could in others

[Hookmaster]

I tried a PM for my Benelli M1 at it did nothing with the loads I was using. I just learned to shoot better.

[RoosterRedneck]

Quote:

---

I tried a PM for my Benelli M1 at it did nothing with the loads I was using. I just learned to shoot better.

---

I hope people don't put this choke in and think they're going to be a sharpshooter. Once you know what your doing this choke will help.

[Hookmaster]

After reading my post it sounded like I thought it would make me shoot better. Actually I was trying it to see which choke would give me the best patterns with my steel reloads. I tried a few aftermarket chokes, but the factory choke turned out to be the best. I have been using the factory choke ever since even though I am now shooting factory loads again since they got the speed up over 1500 fps. I bought a book on wing-shooting called "The Orvis Wing-Shooting Handbook. My shooting improved like night and day. I was taught how to shoot a rifle not a shotgun. If you need help on wing-shooting this book will help you.

[poutpro]

A PM can really make the close shots very difficult to hit, however it does have more knockdown power at the longer range shots.

[hanson]

Its really interesting to read the comments here as many people are confirming what I've previously said.

There is absolutely no substitution (IMO anyway) for knowing your gun well, how it shoots, how it patterns, how it handles different shells, etc. That is what will make you a better hunter on the shooting end of things.

When it comes to waterfowling, you might as well add scouting, calling, decoy placement, concealment, etc to the mix to further your success.

There really are so many variables and components that can be put together to make you a better duck or goose hunter.

What choke tube or ammo you use is really the least of my worries. There are many bigger fish to fry before it gets to that point. And even what gun you shoot doesn't matter that much IMO. I shoot a Wingmaster 870 pump gun still. Black barrel, wood stock and forearm. Its shot plenty of ducks and geese.

A $1600 autoloader will not make you a better hunter. $100 choke tube won't either. And $20-30 per box ammo sure won't if you don't know how to properly lead birds.

[PikeTipper]

Quote:

---

A $1600 autoloader will not make you a better hunter. $100 choke tube won't either. And $20-30 per box ammo sure won't if you don't know how to properly lead birds.

---

All very true and I also shoot an 870. The only reason I am interested in a PM is to help my ratio of kills to cripples. Those late season birds (especially divers) have such a thick layer of fat on them that they can be tough to kill in 1 shot and anyone who has hunted divers knows how expensive a crippled diver can get

[trailratedtj]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

A $1600 autoloader will not make you a better hunter. $100 choke tube won't either. And $20-30 per box ammo sure won't if you don't know how to properly lead birds.

---

All very true and I also shoot an 870. The only reason I am interested in a PM is to help my ratio of kills to cripples. Those late season birds (especially divers) have such a thick layer of fat on them that they can be tough to kill in 1 shot and anyone who has hunted divers knows how expensive a crippled diver can get

---

$120 expensive if you dont unload you gun, case it, and shut your boat motor off.