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bells and birds


fisher

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I was at the dog park in St. Paul Battle creek to day with my 5 month old lab. I put his bell on and we were working the tall grass. A man come up after his pointer all he said was look at the bell he'll never find a bird. I have read thats its ok to use the bell or a beeper coaler. what do you think is this man right or and A!!hole?

thanks

Jeff Krop

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Bells usually do not decrease your success on birds. Many grouse hunters use them along with some pheasant hunters. A lot of guys are going the route of beepers... but again there should be no difference in bird getting capabilities between a beeper and bell. On occassion I have felt they did indeed tip your hand on really late season pressured roosters, but in some instances (ie: thick cattails) it may increase your chances as you always know where your dog is and you are able to use less vocal commands to keep it in check.

I vote a-hole...

Good Luck!

Ken

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If I didn't use a bell or beeper I would not be able to tell when my dog is point. I like the beeper better but I still use the bell once in awhile. And the beeper is way louder than a bell and it only makes noise when the dog is on a bird so i know it doesnt scare them away.

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I vote A-hole also. I've grouse hunted with a bell on my setter for 8 years with no problems. Pheasant hunting, I could possibly believe it contributes to running birds, but then again, the hens always sit tight - I thought about a beeper for pheasant hunting, but I can't get over that "back-up alarm" sound when afield. Now that tinkle-tinkle sound of a bell brings a smile to my face.

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but I can't get over that "back-up alarm" sound when afield. Now that tinkle-tinkle sound of a bell brings a smile to my face.


Haha it takes a while to get used to the "back-up alarm" but I cant hunt without it now. I have it set to beep on point only. Its amazing that it doesn't bother the dog or bird.

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I always use a bell in the grouse woods, its part of the whole deal for me. To me, I like having silence when its time for action, and noise in between as opposed to silence when moving and beep on point. I guess there could have been times my dog was on point and I didn't know it, but I still prefer the bell. I guess we'll make it unanimous and vote that guy the mayor of a-hole township.

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I have a lab and I always have a bell on her when we are pheasant hunting. I don't think it hurts any chances on getting birds since she seems to lock on point more then she flushes them. I think it really helps from my point of view as it has really made it a lot easier for me to get out of her way and not get taken out at the knees.

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When I fot my Britt last spring, I got a beeper collar. I really like it when I am in real tall grass and can't see him. I have a bell in his hunting box for back-up just in case the collar goes dead. Maybe the guy was just jealous? grin.gif

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The man was obnoxious and a bit uninformed. I personally am on the fence with bells and beepers. I think sometimes it doesn't affect the birds and sometimes it definitely affects them. I still think silence is the best way to go if it's possible. If not then you have no choice but a bell or beeper.

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For years I used bells on my labs when I was hunting cattails but not anymore, I've went just the opposite and like to run silent, no whistle, no voice, just my labs tuned into me. I hate seeing those late season birds flushing out 100 yards away!!! You can get by with a bell in the early season but not for late season roosters.

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I have a 7 year old German Shorthair.

I've run her with bells, beepers and with nothing.

I have not noticed any difference in getting birds with beel or beeper but the beeper sure helps finding her on point in tall grass and cattails.

And I have not seen any difference in early or late season.

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Why does the guy have to be classified as an a--hole? Maybe he was curious. Maybe his experience was different.

If you read enough of the threads here one common theme seems to be that rude people belong in bars and not out hunting. How about carrying that idea in your posts? Seems that too many times when people encounter someone there is a reaction that assumes some sort of ill motive and the friction is instantaneous. Can't see the reason for it myself.

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Quote:

I've went just the opposite and like to run silent, no whistle, no voice, just my labs tuned into me. I hate seeing those late season birds flushing out 100 yards away!!! You can get by with a bell in the early season but not for late season roosters.


I agree. To me there is no reason to run a bell, beeper, or anything else. My dog is brown and almost melts into cover, but if I keep an eye on him at all times, we have no problems. Even thick cattails, you can tell where he is by the movement of the cover.

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I like stealth too. With my older, slower paced Britt we no longer use a bell. With my 2 year old Britt a bell is a must.

I suspect a bell does scare some birds - especially grouse in heavily hunted woods, but I also believe it is absolutely necessary.

Human voice does more harm than bells, beepers, etc... learn to remain quiet with your dog and the pheasants will stay closer.

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Quote:

Quote:

I've went just the opposite and like to run silent, no whistle, no voice, just my labs tuned into me. I hate seeing those late season birds flushing out 100 yards away!!! You can get by with a bell in the early season but not for late season roosters.


I agree. To me there is no reason to run a bell, beeper, or anything else. My dog is brown and almost melts into cover, but if I keep an eye on him at all times, we have no problems. Even thick cattails, you can tell where he is by the movement of the cover.


that probably works great with close or slow working dogs but you could never keep track of fast pointing dog that has a decent range that way.

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Absolutely correct on that, in waist or chest high grass or cat-tails, your dog could be doing just what their trained to do and you'd miss seeing a beautiful point. To me that is the most satisfying aspect of bird hunting, watching the dog work!

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OK I sat out long enough on this one. If I understand correctly you were at a dog park where no firearms are allowed. Then this guy was just being a jerk. I have always used either a beeper or a bell on my pointers. Nothing is worse than spending 1/2 hour trying to find a wide ranging pointer holding on a bird or birds 250yrds over the next hill. It also enables me to handle multiple dogs at once by letting me know exactly where each dog is at all times. I do have a slightly different opinion when it comes to a 20 yrd flushing breed. It's ok in certain situations but overall I think it's really unnecessary.

CW

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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I've went just the opposite and like to run silent, no whistle, no voice, just my labs tuned into me. I hate seeing those late season birds flushing out 100 yards away!!! You can get by with a bell in the early season but not for late season roosters.


I agree. To me there is no reason to run a bell, beeper, or anything else. My dog is brown and almost melts into cover, but if I keep an eye on him at all times, we have no problems. Even thick cattails, you can tell where he is by the movement of the cover.


that probably works great with close or slow working dogs but you could never keep track of fast pointing dog that has a decent range that way.


IMHO, there is no reason for a dog to ever work past shooting range, 30-40 yds max, and he is a fast running pointer. Late season wild birds will often times not hold for a point, and if the dog is farther then that, I don't even get a shot. I prefer to shoot them, not watch them fly away.

I also will not speak to my dog in field, a small lip whistle, and hand signals will bag more late season smart roosters then anything else. I call it stealth mode.

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IMHO, there is no reason for a dog to ever work past shooting range, 30-40 yds max, and he is a fast running pointer. Late season wild birds will often times not hold for a point, and if the dog is farther then that, I don't even get a shot. I prefer to shoot them, not watch them fly away.


I thought pointing dogs are supposed to cover alot of area, not hunt in gun range. You might as well have a flushing breed then. Is your pointer bumping the birds so you keep him that close so you can shot at the flushed not pointed birds? Late season pheasants are a little nervous but they still hold well for a pointer that doesnt pressure his birds. I let the dog adjust his range for the cover on his own. In thick woods he stays closer (under 80 yards) but in open feilds he goes well over 100 yards all season with no trouble.

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I couldn't have said it better myself. I wan't my dog to find birds that I would'nt find myself.

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Amen! ..... Just got back in from grouse hunting today. Ran a bell all day only had 2 birds flush wild all day. And I'm almost 100% sure it wasn't the bells fault..Even in the stiff wind the birds held tight today it was most excelent..Even got a monster woodcock pointed today. That was a suprise. Ended up with 8 or 9 birds pointed and 3 for the pot.. Pretty good for 4hrs in the woods late season......Bell and all!

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IMHO, there is no reason for a dog to ever work past shooting range, 30-40 yds max, and he is a fast running pointer. Late season wild birds will often times not hold for a point, and if the dog is farther then that, I don't even get a shot. I prefer to shoot them, not watch them fly away.


What breed do you have? I doubt it is a "fast running pointer" that holds in at 30-40. If it is a Pointer you are missing out on a lot of great hunting by reigning it in that close. Why would buy a two hundred yard dog and only let it run at %20 of its potential?

CW

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What breed do you have? I doubt it is a "fast running pointer" that holds in at 30-40. If it is a Pointer you are missing out on a lot of great hunting by reigning it in that close. Why would buy a two hundred yard dog and only let it run at %20 of its potential?

CW


I hunt a viszla, and I only hunt wild pheasants. I have enough birds flushing wild hunting with no sound to let the dog hunt 200 yds away. My dog does hunt 30-40 yds to each side of me, but he is there to hunt for me, not do his own thing. There may be a difference to guys hunting grouse, or game farm chickens, but wild birds are not that easy.

I guess I don't understand why you would let a dog hunt 200 yds away. Do you just wander around aimlessly looking for your dog? I am there to hunt, and part of that experience is watching the dog work. Most of the cover I hunt, I could not see my dog 50 yds away, let alone 200. Not seeing the dog would ruin the hunt.

I always thought guys who let their dogs run 250 yds away just said they wanted their dog to do that because it was not trained well enough to hunt with in range, but maybe they do it on purpose.

FB

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I'm sure they said they let the dog range depending on the cover..In tight cover the dog should hunt close! In open cover the dog should be allowed to roll a bit.. If my dog bumps a wild bird 150 yrds. to my right front it really doesn't bother me because that's a bird I probably would never have seen because i wasn't planning to walk there. Hunt your dog how you want but you may be missing some chances by not letting them roll some times.. Trust them and let them do what they were born to do...And they will reward you with birds you may have otherwise gone by... Now, if you are hunting a fence row or ditch by all means keep them close. Since the birds will be confined to that cover source.. Do yourself a favor farmboy. From time to time......LET EM ROLL!!!! good luck uplander

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Your right as rain Uplander, said better then I could. I let my dog tell me what to do, he knows where they are, and I have learned to trust him. I guess I don't hunt large expanses of cover, and this is what works best for me in the type of cover I normally hunt.

I just hate to see birds busting wild frown.gif Roll on!

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Birds bust wild sometimes whether a dog is ranging ahead or not. I hunt a lab so she has to stay closer than the pointers. She will get birdy 20 yards from me and soon after a bird will bust 200 yards away. She will follow the trail right to where the bird got up. It happens and its part of hunting. You chalk one up to a smart bird and find a new one that is hopefully a little less wary.

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Farmboy1,

I think your outlook on how a pointer should hunt is a little different than the others and there's nothing wrong with that. If it suits you that's great. However, most folks would agree that the advantage of a pointer is the ability to hunt out of gun range.

Quote:

There may be a difference to guys hunting grouse, or game farm chickens, but wild birds are not that easy.


We all know wild birds and I mean all wild birds, not just pheasants, aren't that easy and we are all talking about wild birds. Pheasants, grouse, partridge, sharptails, etc. If you think grouse are easy then you should hunt them some time. Game farm birds don't count.

Quote:

but he is there to hunt for me, not do his own thing


The range of a dog has nothing to do with whether it's hunting for you or not. A 150 yd dog can hunt for you just as well as a 40 yd dog. A 30 yd dog can be a self hunter just as a half mile dog can be a self hunter. It sounds like you want a shooting opportunity whether the dog points or not and that's fine with me. The point is the dog must handle and go with you even when it's far away.

There are some of us that would prefer our dogs work more independently (that doesn't mean untrained and in fact oftentimes means more trained) and get out there and find birds we wouldn't normally find. I would guess that most of the time most of our dogs are inside 100 yds. It's not like they're out 250 yds all the time. But if there's a lone spot way out there why not just let the dog check it out.

Quote:

Do you just wander around aimlessly looking for your dog?


No, the dog handles for me. It keeps an eye on me and works in the direction I am working while checking out all likely spots, including one's that are far away.

Quote:

I always thought guys who let their dogs run 250 yds away just said they wanted their dog to do that because it was not trained well enough to hunt with in range, but maybe they do it on purpose


To have a dog handle it's birds correctly when out on a limb usually requires a bit of training. I could keep my dog in range if I wanted but I don't think for me that I'd be making the best use of her talents and abilities. I just let her go. Sometimes I do reign her in but we usually do the best when she does it her way. She knows way more about it than I do.

After all that I will say that yes, there will be birds that run out from under points and some that flush wild. They are wild birds and they do what they want to whether there's a dog there or not. This can mean a missed shooting opportunity. For some that's not an option. I'm willing to accept the occasional missed opportunity because somewhere along the line she will give me a memory. She'll stick one good and it'll be something to write about.

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I've had this conversation a million times, but this is the best way I can describe it. I know this situation would never happen but it kind of displays the difference.

You have 3 200 yard by 200 yard fields each with 10 birds in them.

A large running dog will lets say hunt each field in 10 minites finding 7 out of 10 birds.

Total of 21 out of 30 birds in 30 minutes.

A close working dog will most likely find all 10 birds but take at least twice as long to do it.

Total 30 out of 30 in 60 minutes.

Obvioiusly this situation doesn't usually occur in the wild, but the point is you may miss more birds with a large running dog, but you can cover much more ground more quickly that could in turn turn into more birds per outing, and some pretty fancy dog work. To each their own, and what ever works for you, works for you.

I've hunted with guys that freak out when they see where my dog is during the hunt, but after a while they figure out what is going on and really seem to enjoy the experience. There is nothing better than hearing a bell stop in the distance, working through cover to get there to see your dog locked up tight, all the while holding for you as you approach, slowly turning her head, making eye contact with you as to say "psst, right there". Taking a few steps and hearing the bird take off, marking the bird on the bead, shooting and then hearing the thump of wings beating on the ground. Nothing better.

Shoot straight.

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