My first opener ever!!! & Do you think I got a bad CO?

[Sandmannd]

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So does this mean I would be ticketed from him for the vest I'm wearing in the 2007 deer pic photos i just posted?

I don't see anything wrong with that amount of orange.

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The vest you have on Tipmann's Killer Buck is the same amount if not less that I have. I was wearing a 4X vest and wear a 2 x jacket so it was oversized. By the way, that is a nice looking buck, congrats. So do you guys think I need to run out and buy more orange if I go out again, since I got a warning or what would you do?

[Scott K]

Its in your best interest to have on as much orange as possible, they have you wear it to protect you!

[ricqik]

I wonder if he's the same middle age(30ish +/-) CO that gave my dad a citation for having a 2yr old blaze orange jacket. The jacket still bright and shiny but if held next to a brand spanken new one you could tell it is slightly faded, I mean slightly. Fought the ticket for a whole yr and proved that diff brands carry slightly diff blaze orange tone. Yes they're all blaze but with slight varience in color tone.

[lawdog]

I've had one really bad experience with a CO in all the years I've been hunting (and just one other marginally bad one), and it was the first weekend of the deer season like this. Part of the problem with some of these guys (like this guy we ran into) is they bring guys out to the field that aren't usually working the field because they are short on staff. This guy that stopped us literally had no clue about the hunting regs and frankly we pretty much told him that by the time we were done. We were 100% in the right and by the time the rule books came out and everything else (including a call to another CO), he left with his tail between his legs. The regular guys working the field I've seldom had problems with. Its a very hectic weekend for them and while I feel for them they still have to be professional and do their jobs. This guy sounded a bit overzealous and not all that knowledgeable about the law, but I'm glad the tip (assuming there actually was one) was actually followed up on at least.

[hanson]

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Its in your best interest to have on as much orange as possible, they have you wear it to protect you!

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I believe that wearing the bare legal minimum is a safety concern for myself. I really want people to see me! Therefore, its full orange coat and hat for sure, sometimes I'll even go with pants.

And as this mornings hunt went, a buck will get within 7 yards of your stand when you are wearing full orange and weren't ready for him. Doh! I was so busted!

[Steve Foss]

Well, it's my understanding there's no permanent record of a warning ticket being issued. I got one once and the CO said there was no lasting record and I could basically tear it up and forget about it.

As for wearing more blaze orange, if you're following the law there's NO reason you have to. However, especially in those areas with lots of hunter traffic, the more you have the safer you are. That's true anywhere, but even more true when hunters are all over the place.

Sounds to me like the CO was just giving you guys a hard time about the orange and the "loaded" muzzleloader to save a little face because he wasn't getting anywhere with the main deal.

[Grant Pearson]

I can see him trying to save face with everything else, but even then, it was thrown right back at him with statements that he could look up in the book. Part of it was he was trying to see how well we knew the handbook. When it turned out that we knew it better than he thought, he was finished and went away a little more pissed. I will do everything I can to follow through and know what the outcome is.

[MNRookie78]

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This is a rough deal. One has to remember that someone reported that you left a deer and didnt retrieve it. I dont know what happened but the CO was going through normal questioning when he talked to both you and KF.

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Sounds to me they were found guilty in the CO's eyes BEFORE any questioning had been done based on the report he received. In my opinion (given the stories told by both parties involved) the CO could have done a better job of questioning without the bad treatment. Whatever happened to innocent until PROVEN guilty?

Sorry to hear about the bad experience guys, that just sucks. Don't let one bad apple spoil your first deer hunt in MN. There are plenty of great CO's that would rather take 5 minutes to make sure you are legal and 25 minutes talking about how your day went and if he has any good tips he'd be happy to give them to you.

[Grant Pearson]

a few things that irk me about him talking to us is 1) he was willing to call a dog in to find the deer meaning that he didn't have a deer and would've taken any deer that was found and 2) said that he was going back to wait for the hunters in another truck to come out and then talk to them about the same thing. kinda puts holes into the interrogation don't you think?

[Scott M]

Guys, file your report. It was an unfortunate situation without a doubt.

Basically the guy's bark was worse than his bite. I cannot imagine working openind day of deer hunting at Carlos Avery . I would rather spend a day digging ditches than doing that. I'm sure you get a short fuse in no time. I guess what I'm trying to say is do your best to be the bigger man, understand that people, even COs make mistakes, file your complaint....in general the Metro is not a place that DNR people aspire to. It is where young and untested employees go. This person is probably just learning and was somewhat fresh from the academy (speculation). Give them the benefit of the doubt, but most importantly continue to hunt. It is a credit to the two of you that you were following the laws and understood them better than your interviewing (grilling?) officer.

Try and take the high road, be the bigger man, and show some empathy. Forgive.

Good luck on Tuesday and I hope you will be back out there trying to fill a tag.

[MOBY RICHARD*]

Well Sandmannd I don't know if a warning ticket of this kind will show up on a search, but it will probably stay recorded somewhere on a computer...

On a traffic violation warning, if you don't receive another for the same offence, within a certain amount of time, it doesn't count against you, but it may not go completely away...

I do know that motor vehicle violations that leave your public record after a certain time period, remain on file, and when you are pulled over and the officer asks if you have any priors, and you think they have all gone off record and say no, guess what, he pulls your record up from day one, and not necessarily just traffic stuff...so it is best to only say no only if you have never had any, or to say not since blah blah blah...etc.

Having said all that, since you didn't receive a warning ticket, although it will probably be recorded, probably will not show in any unrelated background check...but this is not a guarantee...it is usually best to be forthcoming about these things, and tell your side first, in case the issue does arise, kind of a preemptive thing...

How did he have your record up if he only had kingfisher1's vehicle license?

This is sounding like someone was really gunning for you guys...sorry to hear your first hunt was spoiled.

[Surface Tension]

The vest is the bare minimum, if its not zipped up its not covering your front and your under that minimum.

It wasn't like he was just checking your license. You were reported for a serious game violation. If there was any incriminating evidence or statements during that stop it would have helped very much in making a case against you.

Understand, the CO couldn't let you go till he exhausted all avenues his authority would allow. That should be done in a professional manner. Under the circumstances you can see why his demeanor isn't going to be that of a Wallmart greeter. That stop might have saved you from going to court to defend yourself. Then again, if the CO found something it might have sealed the deal and you would be going to court.

Your experience is unfortunate. It doesn't happen often and it wouldn't stop me from getting right back out.

What I would do if it were me is first find out if the TIP was a legitimate mistake. If the caller left his contact info then you can be sure there was a misunderstanding. A random call leaving no contact info should be looked at as suspicious and followed up on. In either case I'd want to clear my name. A lawyer would probably tell you to say nothing else. You can contact a superior and explain your treatment at the same time demand a follow up the TIP.

[Surface Tension]

I wonder how your view is pertaining to using strong arm tactics by our Government is now?

When the CO has a hot tip shouldn't he be allowed to follow up on that TIP?

Hey if it takes intimidation and detaining you to get a confession out of you then so be it.

If your not guilty what do you have to hide?

How else is the DNR to do their jobs if we tie their hands?

Now you might get an understanding why I was against letting the DNR use the List as propaganda on this site.

My name isn't on that list nor is anyone I've ever met, still I can recognize when our government is overstepping its bounds.

I don't need any replies, just think about it.

[Sandmannd]

I wouldn't post his name or badge on any site, he knows who he is. I understand they are busy and I wouldn't want to do that job, but treat everyone fair is all I'm asking. It was my vehicle we were in, that's how he had my picture. This wasn't a first year rookie, he was at least in his 40's. All said, I'm going to report it. I want something to happen to the people that gave the false report. I wasn't worried about the warning showing up, but will the complaint against me show up? We are heading out again Tomorrow morning, I really just want to get my first deer. Looking at going back to carlos, and hopefully less traffic, but I wouldn't mind checking out another area. I'm trying to find some other options.

[Eric Wettschreck]

My question for those who disagree with what the CO did is, "What should he have done differently?" Be nice?? I don't think so. He has to approach and question people, with guns, that may be guilty of a serious crime, on the deer opener. Nice can wait.

After receiving a TIP call he is duty bound to investigate. This is why we pay them. He got called out on a serious wanton waste type thing and he HAD to find out some version of the truth. Many people say, "I don't know what you are talking about/ wasn't me/ huh?" when they are guilty as sin.

It's unfortunate that someones first experience turned out this way. Buck up, rub some dirt on your wound, and get over it. Maybe the CO didn't have the best bed side manner and that's just the way it goes. Nothing to hide? Doing nothing wrong? Nothing to worry about.

It just floors me to read one post about how the DNR needs to do a better job stopping poachers and then read another post about a CO getting a tip call and people want the CO's head on a platter cuz he did his job.

[Steve Foss]

Sand, I sure did wonder about that initial report. So many questions in my mind about that. I think that's a good reason to file the complaint.

And good luck with your hunting. Sounds like you're not letting one bad experience keep you from pursuing a new passion, and that is good! Years from now, when you and the next generations are sitting around at deer camp you can tell them the tale and chuckle over it. Things that make us mad at the time can make us laugh later.

[Sandmannd]

Boilerguy, I don't want the CO's head on a platter. They have a tough job to do and I understand that. I don't have a problem with him stopping and questioning us. But, he was a jerk the whole time. Even when it came clear we had done nothing he treated us like crap. Like I said, if, when he was done, he would have said this looked like a misunderstanding, or thanks for taking the time to talk to me or something to that effect I think it would have gone a long way to ease how we walked away feeling. To basically tell us we shouldn't finish hunting that night and just go home is wrong. We have as much right as anyone. I don't have a problem with him being a bad cop in the beginning to get us to stutter and make our stories not match (if we had done this). But after everything matched up he could had least have flashed a little niceness our way. Again, we were overly cooperative. I have respect for law and did everything he asked. No reason to treat me like S***.

[96trigger]

I think the CO was reaching for something with the Blaze orange, or the "loaded muzzleloader". However, he was doing his job when he was questioning you about the supposed dead deer. A report was made by someone, that you shot and left a deer. I'm sure he was trying to catch you before you left the area. Unfortunately, without the deer, he didn't have a leg to stand on unless you admitted it, hence, the attitude, he had a better chance of pressuring you into spilling your guts than finding the deer.

Hypothetically, If you were walking out of a store and someone ran up to you in the BIG parking lot and said "Do you own that nice Chevy way over there?"

You reply "Yes"

The stranger says "Those people leaving in that Durango just backed into it and put a large dent in the quarter panel, better go talk to them before they leave."

What do you do? I know what I would do, I would try and stop the Durango and talk to them, try and get there insurance information, block them from leaving until I get the license number etc... The exchange gets heated, so on and so forth, you only end up getting the license plate number.

You walk back to your truck and look at the damage and there isn't any. This was just some jerks way of wasting everybody's time.

The guys that reported you should get fined and ticketed for a false report. The oldest trick in the book when you are doing something illegal is to point out something else illegal on someone else and hope its bigger than your offense. I don't suppose the CO got their number and license. Too bad, sounds like they could have been the ones guilty of something. Don't blame the CO for doing his job. He might have been a jerk about it, which is unfortunate, but no harm, no foul. Call his supervisor if it makes you feel better.

I'd really be thinking hard about the day and try and figure out if at any time, I may have done something to make someone mad. I'm sorry that your first hunt didn't end well, don't let it discourage you. Thousands of hunters hit the woods and have great experiences with CO's. Don't let one bad one discourage you.

BTW, if the guy really was a jerk, please report him. It sounds like you really think the guy was overstepping his boundaries. I am not completely sticking up for the CO, just putting in his perspective.

[BLACKJACK]

I would definately report the guy. If his superiors start receiving other reports about the guy, maybe they'll relize he's not cut out for law enforcement and he'll be bounced out.

I personally hold anybody that carries a gun around and is supposed to be The Law up to a higher standard. If he doesn't have the mental make-up to handle a stressful day, then he shouldn't be in law enforcement.

[Steve Foss]

Trigger, that was one possible scenario that occurred to me. Could also have been simply a mistake. Not trying to start an argument, just that I've seen things that looked very punitive turn out to be well-intentioned but misguided. Either way, it won't hurt for the enforcement folks to know about it look into it further — if they have the time. Deer season is one of the peak busiest seasons for COs.

[Shack]

Sandmann,

Give me an e-mail and I will give you the low down on.

I posted this late on Saterday night, but I removed it at midnight (old time).

[Sandmannd]

shackbash, tried emailing you and it comes back to me. You wanna email me at [email protected] ?

Thanks

[Shack]

e-mail sent!

[Grant Pearson]

I left a message for the CO's supervisor and his supervisor's in a meeting and will be calling me back after the meeting. When the receptionist took my name/number/info, she asked what the call regarded. After I told her that it regarded a CO, and which one, for some reason she didn't seem surprised. Now I'm just waiting for the call back.

[MikeYager - Suzuki]

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I left a message for the CO's supervisor and his supervisor's in a meeting and will be calling me back after the meeting. When the receptionist took my name/number/info, she asked what the call regarded. After I told her that it regarded a CO, and which one, for some reason she didn't seem surprised. Now I'm just waiting for the call back.

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Good move. His boss should know about this. People should report such things so that if the guy really isnt cut out for the job his mgt will eventually find out. OR he gets addtional training to handle this situation and cleans up his act. Either way, job feedback is the only way to go. That's what they have alwasy done at my company.

[Grant Pearson]

I just got off the phone with the Captain (yes, I went that high up the totem pole) and she said that she'll pull his report, sit down and talk to him to see what he could've done differently, and is having me call back on Friday. I really don't think that much will come of it, but hope that, if nothing else, he thinks twice about his attitude next time he talks to someone.

[Steve Foss]

Well, kingfisher, this is a good start toward a resolution. It's about the best you could reasonably have hoped for. What would you like to see come of it?

[Grant Pearson]

in all honesty, all I would like to see happen is that he is sat down with and get a chat about his attitude. From volunteering with the DNR as much as I do, I know 100% and completely understand that they have a very difficult job and are way understaffed. The thing that made me so POed is that fact that is attitude was off the charts even after he came to the realization that we weren't hiding anything. I'm 100% behind him stopping us and asking us questions. But for him to sit in his vehicle for 20 minutes not doing much of anything and after giving our licenses back, telling us to leave the WMA? That was uncalled for. That's where the problem is. All I want is that he is more respectful. The captain even said that it's not good when a new hunter is considering exclusively hunting in a different state because of a CO's actions.

[Steve Foss]

Cool. Looks like that chat is about to happen, so you'll get what you want out of it.

[GoggleEye]

Man! Classic story of bad CO, good CO. It seems like CO's are either really good nice people or completely rude, harassing, and uneducated individuals. Sounds as if you got the bad one! I can't believe he didn't know the laws about blaze orange and muzzleloaders!!! I hate to say it, because the DNR is understaffed and there are not enough CO's out there to cover everything, but this guy deserves to be shown the door and sent to the unemployment office! I have fished with KF and Sandmann, and they are both stand-up guys. I am sure there was no need for harassing them like this guy did. Sorry to hear about your episode boys! Good luck getting a deer!

GoggleEye