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      Members Only Fluid Forum View   08/08/2017

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IFallsRon

Lofton or Hunter?

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IFallsRon

........................G ...AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG

K Lofton CLE OF 136 490 86 145 25 6 7 38 203 56 51 23 7 .367 .414 .296

T Hunter MIN OF 160 600 94 172 45 1 28 107 303 40 101 18 9 .334 .505 .287

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B. Amish

whats the point....

hunter's numbers are clearly better, he's a better fielder, his arm is far superior, and a lot younger

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jigging-matt

I was wondering the same thing. Put Age in there and it is just another advantage Hunter. One other item that can't show up in stats is LEADERSHIP. If loftin is such a great person, why has he been on so many teams?

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IFallsRon

Which player is the better value? Lofton makes $6 mil, Hunter makes $12 mil.

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B. Amish

i have nothing against lofton, but at his age i think he's lucky to be making 6 million. the guys had a great career, and is a border line hall of famer.

but no one is going to buy a ticket to go watch lofton....

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jigging-matt

Hunter, Hands down. Loftin is close to being a platoon player and not an everyday player. 6 million-half season, 12 million- full season. Equal.

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TNFL

Don't forget this is hunter's best year ever, by far. Coincidently in a contract year. Does anyone besides me think he must be on HGH. How many full season of the last 5 has hunter played most of the games (besides this year)?

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bgreen82

Quote:

Don't forget this is hunter's best year ever, by far. Coincidently in a contract year. Does anyone besides me think he must be on HGH. How many full season of the last 5 has hunter played most of the games (besides this year)?


please tell me youre joking. the guy had a serious ankle injury what 2 years ago, and he plays centerfield. of course he may have had some problems staying on the field last year. and he has shown glimpses that he could have seasons like this for 6 years now, he just played more consistently this year than he ever has. thats what i hate about the steroid era. nobody can avoid it.

oh and by the way, here are his games played totals since he became a regular in 2001. 148, 148, 154, 138, 98(year of his ankle injury), 147, 160.

not bad for a fielder who plays as physical as he does. come on.

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xedge2002

I would agree with ya bgreen. I know if I had to dive around on the metrodome turf for half a season I would be a little banged up and probably not play a full season, for me 98 games would be a good year! I think Hunter is a great player and can't imagine anyone else in CF for the twins. If we do end up with a new CF, I feel sorry for them, they have some big shoes to fill. The last two CFers we've had: Kirby Puckett and Tori Hunter, two hugely popular guys with the fans and two personalities that are clubhouse leaders that lead the young guys by example.

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PierBridge

Quote:

Don't forget this is hunter's best year ever, by far.


Nope 2006 and 2007 were about the same stat wise Hunter hit more Home runs and had a higher on Base pecentage in 2006.

Lofton's 40 case closed!

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R. Miller

I'd say Hunter...but you gotta love Lofton, too.

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zamboni

I remember when Lofton accused Mientkiewicz of trying to spike him at first. I'd take Hunter anyday- the only thing Lofton has on Hunter, and this was years ago when Lofton was in his prime was base stealing. Hunters OK at it, but Lofton was excellent

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PierBridge

Quote:

but you gotta love Lofton, too.


True and he may a better short term bang for the buck option.

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Cicada

I think it's no coincidence that Hunter has come on since the departure of J. Jones. Now Hunter watches Mauer and Morneau's appraoch at the plate and that has rubbed off on him.

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bigbucks

I was going to say 4 out of 5 due to the injury year, but since you said "most" of the games & he played 98 of the 162 in that year I guess I'll say 5 out of 5. I'm wondering if you view players as not having played a full season if they play less than 160 games or what?

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TNFL

I guess you guys enjoy watching him hack away at outside curveball in pressure situations. And then padding his stats against weak pitching when they are comfortably ahead.

Don't get me wrong I don't think he is garbage or anything, I just think he is overrated and over paid, and getting older.

I'll just always see him as:

someone who has been thrust into the heart of the lineup and always had opportuinities to produce. Yet has consitently been a 280 hitter with 25 homers of which half are solo shots when they are either up by 3 or down by 3 or more. If thats worth 12 million a year.......no wonder I didn't make it to Twins game this year.

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juggs

The thing that gets me about Hunter (and others) is he tries to turn this issue of staying/going into a tear-jerker. "I don't wan't to go....I've been a Twin my whole career," etc. Guardado did the same thing. Take what they offer for crying out loud. You made $12 million in '07. I think this is the work of the agents and the union pushing or forcing the players as much as they're able to grab the most money possible. I'm all for capitalism and players getting what they can, but when they squabble over relative peanuts and wind up taking the bigger contract, even if it's with an obviously inferior team, I say good riddance. The Twins may miss him, they may not. I don't bleed for the players.

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fishyguy

I don't get it. If an average Joe is making $50K at Company A and he has been there since finishing school and gets an offer for $70K from company B, he should turn it down? I realize athletes are dealing in millions but isn't it mostly about the money for the rest of us also? I have been at my current job for 17 years and would probably shed a tear if I left, but if company B offered me 30% more money with more security and guarantees, I would be cleaning my desk out before that first tear hit my cheek.

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juggs

I think you may have missed my point. First off, there's a huge difference between 50 or 70K and millions. Players in Hunter's shoes like to make it sound as though whether they stay or go is the GM/owner's decision because they have to take the "best" offer. That's exactly what I'm getting from Hunter and exactly what Guardardo said before he signed with Seattle. These players are sooo set for life they have the luxury of playing wherever they want (among the teams that are interested). If Torii likes it so much in Minnesota then take the offer and stop whining. He doesn't "need" the money like Sprewell!

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fishyguy

Actually, I think I do get your point. If I hear you correctly, it boils down to this:

Torii says he wants to stay....

Twins make offer for ungodly amounts of money.....

Torii tests the market as even the Twins acknowledge he will probably get substantially more on the open market....

Torii says he really does want to stay but wants a deal that is either longer term or worth more, as that is what the market will bear....

If we disagree, I think it is on the point that you feel that because Torii said he wants to stay and was offered an amount of money that sets him up for life and beyond, you feel he should take it. I feel he still can ask for more if the market says he has earned it.

Nobody has said he won't take less to stay with the Twins. He just has to make sure the Twins are at least in the ballpark. He probably also want to ensure they will do what it takes to stay competitive in his final years.

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juggs

That's mostly it. I think we as fans are insulted when players give the impression that their staying or going is out of their hands and that's exactly the case here. I've heard Hunter say that in effect. Guardardo, too. My guess is the players are so pressured by either the union, their agents, or their own greed such that it would be a disservice to the rest of the players, i.e. the union, to lower overall market value by taking less money to stay where they're at. But this notion that they don't have a choice is bogus. If you want more money, than at least say you're leaving because of that, not that you have no choice in the matter and you'd really really love to stay. Money should be such a non-issue these days. Sadly, it's a greater issue than ever.

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UdeLakeTom

A deceased friend of mine once asked me, "at what point in your life do you realize that you really don't need more".

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fishyguy

I am hoping a friend of mine one day will ask me, "Why turn done more if you have earned it"?

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