Killing northern pik on purpose in California

[nine-tiner]

check this link out

I especially like the statement that says they "regularly" grow to 55 lbs.

Of course I am not sure this is the answer to the problem, because if it was we would have to poison the entire Mississippi against the "flying" carp coming this way Yahoo

[Eric Wettschreck]

I would think the CA dept of fish and game knows what they are doing. It's an invasive species to that lake and needs to go. Not to different from what our DNR does here when they kill lakes to get rid of invasive fish.

This could be yet another result of amature biology where someone or some group thought it would be nice to have northerns in their lake. In the end it turns out badly.

[polarsusd81]

This is absurd in my opinion. California is known for wanting to produce world record fish, look at the bass they are growing out there in their lakes. Why not just have a trophy pike lake too.

And northern pike being an invasive species, I don't know if I would classify them as such. In all the fishing I have done this year, which has been a lot, I have caught one pike, and it was a decent one at 7 lbs. I guess I just don't see them as such a big problem.

Does the California DNR have way too much money or is it just another way to spend taxpayers dollars? 16 million to rid a lake of pike after they initially spent 20 million a few years back to try doing the same. Just seems like they aren't getting things quite right.

[Sonicrunch]

WOW I came across this yesterday and was going to post it. Looks like you guys beat me to it.

Anywho, the pike have to go. They are decimating the trout population. http://www.dfg.ca.gov/lakedavis/

The pike in that lake aer obviously well fed. Look at these fatties!

[MSRiverdog]

Let them pike eat them trout, buy the fishermen some nice flyrods with steel leaders and streamer flys and let em have at it. No I ain't a flyrod guy but I think thats what a lot of them western folks seem to like, they did when I was in Utah anyway so they could chase them 5# Rainbows. With that forage base a new world record is in the bag, and they'ld save a bunch of money.

I D I O T S, but thats California. I sent them an email, I'll post the response if I get one.

[Scott M]

Hey guys, there is a good documentary from UC Davis on it, since the lake isn't too far from that institution. Pike are an invasive species over there. You have to understand what that distinction means. Invasive species, defined by wikipedia, is a non-indigenous species (e.g. plants or animals) that adversely effect the habitats they invade economically, environmentally or ecologically. Just because pike are from the U.S. and North America doesn't mean they are indigenous to California (they aren't).

Think about Rusty Crayfish in Minnesota. They are native to the Ohio River, but here in Minnesota, they are an invasive species.

It may seem hard to think of all those pike we can catch here as an invader somewhere else, but they are (same as the Largemouth Bass as someone pointed out). It is just a matter of priorities. It sounds like lakes out there are managed on a lake by lake basis, which is sometimes easier to do when you don't have 11,000 lakes to manage. In some lakes, California fish and game decides to stock trout in order to feed largemouth bass (I'm not kidding). In other instances, they rotenone lakes to kill invasive pike in order to restore trout. It's a matter of what they want in each lake.

The documenary on pike in Davis lake is really cool. I forgot the name of it. Basically, they tried rotenoning the lake but they never got all the fish. Pike are really tough...they tolerate some pretty harsh waters, it's how they become top of the food chain. It will be tough for them to appease all of their lake users because not everyone wants to get rid of the pike.

[Duffman]

The MN DNR does the same thing here to stream trout lakes, if the pike population gets to large in a stream trout lake, they'll poison it, kill all the fish and then restock trout.

[MSRiverdog]

Slot the lake, let em eat the trout and look for a record Northern in the coming years, problem solved. Feed the Pike, get rid of the invasive trout, look for a new world record.

[lookincalifornia]

that always seemed wrong to me when i first got here. they almost seem to want the bass to eat the trout, but not the pike. personally i think they should sprnd a little less time stocking these lakes with trout and focus solely on the mountain streams. it always makes me laugh a little to see these guys with their fancy flyfishing outfits chasing freshly stocked hatchery trout. there are several wild trout rivers in this area and they aremore fun to catch than the dog food fish anyway. i always thought that walleye would do well in these foothill resevours too. once these californians got a taste for walleye they would forget about trout. personally i would rather eat a 2 pound pike than a trout. they are a crazy bunch out here.

[Craigums]

The thing is if the pike get into those natural trout streams they will kill off the species. the trout just arent equiped to fight of northerns. They are an invasive species in that part of the country and do not belong there

[gunflint]

How about we do an exchange. We send them all of our Smallies and we take all of their Northerns.

[Deitz Dittrich]

No deal!

[Scott K]

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No deal!

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I agree. No deal! Give them the LM instead , and keep the SM !

[analyzer]

As a tax payer, how would you feel if they spent 36 million to eliminate carp from minnetonka? And their answer was to poison the lake?

...

On a different note. I remember picking up a magazine at a doctors office that detailed the 100 largest northern pike ever caught. It's been several years, so my memory is a bit blurry, so forgive me if the details are a little off.

The article suggested that the top 70 or so pike, were from Europe, and many of those were caught during one two-week period out of one lake. Apparently this TROUT lake had no season for pike, and because of the trout population, it had developed some monster northern pike.

Some brilliant person eventually decided to have an open season on the monster pike for 2 weeks. Many of the largest pike ever caught were taken during those two-weeks. The idea was to eliminate these monster pike, so that the trout would prosper.

Well, guess what. They got rid of the monster pike, and shortly thereafter, there was a proliferation of little pike... and shortly thereafter, a CRASH in the trout population. It seems the monster pike were also controlling the pike population, perhaps through canabalism... the whole thing backfired on their fisheries management.

Kinda reminds me of the cormorants on Leech. Take the predators off the island that are eating the cormorant eggs, and a few years, and a few thousand cormorants later, and you have a walleye crash.

I don't think humans really know the effects of their endeavors.

[MSRiverdog]

NOW WAIT A MINUTE HERE!!

[MSRiverdog]

Heres the reply to my email.

Mr. Martin,

We have often been asked what is wrong with pike. My reply "There is absolutely

nothing wrong with pike, what is wrong is when someone illegally introduces them

to waters they are not native to and the ensuing consequence of these introductions.

Several states have waters where they are experiencing this phenomena. Alaska,

a state which has pike naturally north of the Alaskan Range, has experienced what

the presence of illegal introductions of pike can do to fisheries. If you are interested,

I would suggest you check out their web page on pike to read further about the effects

pike have had on their salmon/steelhead populations in the Susitna River drainage.

http://www.wildlifenews.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlife_news.view_article&articles_id=50&issue_id=13

Colorado is also experiencing problems with pike in the Yampa River in the northwestern

part of the state. Here pike are threatening native species which may or may not

be endangered.

http://www.colostate.edu/depts/coopunit/research-northernpike.html

Nevada is having problems with the illegal introduction of pike into Commins Lake

near Ely, NV.

http://www.ndow.org/about/news/pr/020706_comins_pike.shtm

Maine is also experiencing problems with persons illegally stocking pike and they

suspect the presence of pike has led to the loss of an inland salmon population.

http://www.maine.gov/ifw/fishing/illegal_stocking.htm

I'm not so sure the pike would become a 'world class' sized fish in

Lake Davis. The forage for the pike is most likely not adequate to produce such

fish. The largest pike we have seen come from the lake was yesterday following

application of rotenone. This fish was approximately 46" long and weighed

approximately 22 pounds. It was 7 years old and would most likely have only lived

another 1 or 2 years before dying a natural death.

FYI, I will be retiring to the Leech Lake (Walker, MN) area in 10 days. I am looking

forward to enjoying the walleye and musky fishing. Both my wife and I are originally

from the mid-west.

Hope this gives you some idea about our Department's concerns regarding the

northern pike.

Ivan L. Paulsen

Senior Biologist Supervisor, Fisheries

Calif. Dept. Fish & Game

P.O. Box 1858

Portola, CA 96122

(530) 832-4067

FAX (530) 832-9706

Cell (530) 520-6704

[email protected]

[reddog]

How come all of these non native Pike states have a problem with them and where they are native, there aint any?

I'd love to have a pike lake..... somehwere closer than 3 hours away.

Used to be alot of Northerns in the priarie basin lakes, but not no more.

I wonder if theyd let you fish for the Pike without a fishing license if you went to Ca to help ? hehehe

I'm planning a racing trip to Northern Ca next year. I'd love to help them out for an afternoon.

[fisherman-andy]

Why not use the Pike as a food instead of just killing them all. Why waste a resource? Im pretty sure they can come up with ways to harvest the meat and sell or give to charity or 3rd world countries that need food.

[Scott M]

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How come all of these non native Pike states have a problem with them and where they are native, there aint any?

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Where they aren't native they don't have any predators or controls and have a prey source that isn't adapted to their presence. Think of it as if you went from being a player in a blackjack game to the dealer. Instantly you have an advantage. Locally you can find pike in most lakes, catching them, or catching any with some size is a different manner, especially when they aren't on a diet of fatty rainbow trout.

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Why not use the Pike as a food instead of just killing them all. Why waste a resource? Im pretty sure they can come up with ways to harvest the meat and sell or give to charity or 3rd world countries that need food.

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Rotenone is classified by the World Health Organization as a moderately hazardous chemical and is mildly toxic to humans and other mammals. Human deaths attributed to Rotenone are rare because its irritating action causes vomiting in cases where it could be fatal.

Fishing the pike out of the lake would be next to impossible, while there is a more realistic chance of removing pike with rotenone (although interestingly rotenone has already failed in removing pike on Davis Lake once). It's natural to not want to waste but in this instance there wouldn't be an efficient means of removal. People in China would probably think Minnesotans are wasteful if they saw all the carp that typically winterkill in some of our shallow lakes.

[Ely Lake Expert]

Have any of you ever caught a 55 lb pike before?

I know I would sure like to.

[chickeywing]

Analyzer:

I think I remember that article. Fins and Feathers? Turns out the cannibal side of the Pike is a good thing. They figured the monsters kept the hammer handles in check.

There's a reason live bait isn't allowed on designated trout waters. If a state wants to maintain a certain body for a certain species of fish, who are we to complain? Overseas, carp are more desired than walleye. (I'd love to see a Zander lake close!)

TC

[bigbritt]

why do any of you really care what goes on in cali anyway....planning a pike trip here soon let the ca dnr do what they know is right for their waters and stop bothering them with your e-mails. wish they would come over here and find a way to get rid of some of the little hammers in the metro.

[rushing]

How come people dont complain when a lake gets over run with bullheads and carp they kill it out and put walleyes back in? Carp are a great game fish and are a much harder fighting fish than a walleye so what if some one told you well just put your lindy rigs and cranks away and go after the carp?

You probably wouldn't, you want your walleye fishery back well these people love their trout fishing and have limited places to do it so they want it back.

Arizona also has problems with introduced pike into trout lakes. Some southern states have problems with Flathead catfish introduced into certain waters eating all the native fish. Just be thankful its not happening to your favorite species of fish in your favorite waters.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

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Analyzer:

Turns out the cannibal side of the Pike is a good thing. They figured the monsters kept the hammer handles in check.

TC

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Hence, the reason for the slot restrictions on a lot of the lakes that could potentially produce trophy pike!

[tunrevir]

Why don't we import all of those monster fish back here to minnesota and stock them in the metro lakes that have been all fished out of big fish and have a ton of stunted pike and pannies! That would be cool!

Tunrevir~

[hunting4walleyes]

I think a lot of people are missing the point here. Like it was said in a previous post, they do it here right in Minnesota when invasive species get into our trout lakes. Stocking a trout lake is very expensive and time consuming for the fisheries department. There is a plan for every lake to what is to be stocked and managed. None of this would have happened if some knucklehead would not have thrown some pike in there. There is absolutely no way hook and line or gill netting would have rid this lake of all the pike. If they missed a couple, the population would have been back a few years later. I am a huge pike fan and love to fish for them. That's why you will never see me do something dumb like keeping some and intentionally stocking them in a different lake.

[fishinJohn]

Raise your hand if you think pouring many gallons of poison into a lake is a good idea for any reason. Sounds like a future regret to me.

[fivebucks]

My hand is raised. The biologist have studied these chemicals and I believe they can be applied safely. I have no problem with the MN DNR killing off carp and bullheads etc to save some duck lakes or trout lakes. In Alaska when I lived up there some pike got introduced into native trout lakes and wrecked havoc. Invasive is invasive no matter what the species does elsewhere.

[rushing]

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Raise your hand if you think pouring many gallons of poison into a lake is a good idea for any reason. Sounds like a future regret to me.

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Rotenone is a nonsynthetic plant based poison. Its used everywhere to reclaim lakes from "exotic" species including here in Mn.

[Sonicrunch]

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Raise your hand if you think pouring many gallons of poison into a lake is a good idea for any reason. Sounds like a future regret to me.

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You better stay away from courthouse lake in Chaska then!