Fine

[hardwaterfishing]

Do you think it was right for the DNR to do this? My aunt and uncle were out in there boat on July 4th they live right on Games Lake. Anyway they decided to go out in their boat so they could watch all the fireworks shoot off. So they go out there. They see one other boat come out stop over by the channel and shut its lights off. Keep in mind it is dark out. About tem minutes later another boat goes right to where the first boat was and shuts there lights off. So my uncle decide to shut his lights of to keep the bugs away. A little while later they see a big wake coming at them. It was a boat coming right at them. He said that the boat was about 20 yards away and they both switched their lights on at the same time. It turns out it is the DNR officer. he said you should of had their lights on and gave them a lecture and a ticket. Before the DNR left he asked my uncle do you have and questions for me. My uncle then asked him, Do you ever drive with your lights off? The DNR said no and drove off. SO the C.O. drove a few hundred yards without his lights. I don’t know if my uncle went to court to fight it but I saw in the paper he got fined. He didn’t mind paying the fine because he knew he was in the wrong already. But I don’t see how the DNR can travel without their lights on. I herd other stories of this C.O. and it sounds like he is a real ......

[hanson]

Well...

Not having your stern light on at night (while anchored or stationary) is most definitely illegal.

CO not having his lights on, IMO is definitely illegal as well.

When its dark, we're all on the same page and we all play by the same rules but thats just my interpretation. They can't be responsible for other boaters not noticing them so it is seriously in the interest of everybody that they have their proper nav lights on as well.

Cops (in cars) have every right to sit without lights on, its NOT entrapment. But, cops (or a CO), in a boat are moving and are more than likely required to abide by boating regulations.

The fact they didn't have lights on is more than likely not going to get them out of a ticket but is a fact worth mentioning to their superior officers.

[Grant Pearson]

definitely a question I can bring up to the LT C.O. that I know......

[BobT]

The CO officer(s) extinquishing their lights does not negate the fact that your Aunt and Uncle violated the rules however, it would have been more than appropriate for your Aunt and Uncle to file charges against the officer(s) for both violations, anchored without anchor light and under way without navigation lights. Did they get the name and badge number of the officer(s)?

Being a public servant does not waive responsibility for the laws they have sworn to uphold and in fact probably should hold them even more accountable. I don't buy the "they're human too" mentality. You can't site someone for a violation while engaging in the same violation simultaneously. It's a contradiction of philosophy.

Bob

[sparcebag]

Around here you probably dont need a badge # theres one CO whos been here ooo 3-4 yrs. and a new CO started this year,there both nice guys,but I suppose if ya get ticketed you think differently.Personally I hope their strict!To many violaters of all sorts.It really irritates me when fishin I get buzzed by skiers,jetskis and other fishing boats,I guess they were never taught any etiquette or dont know the rules.the your special generation.As far as the COs lights???? I know ya cant see the red/green while a boat is going away,but the white should be seen 360 UMMM???

[IFallsRon]

COs bait "violators" and ticket without giving the benefit of discussion. If the HPD gave tickets instead of warnings the state budget would be full of fine money.

[BobT]

I think the point that we seem to often forget is that when a peace officer writes a sitation it is only bringing charges. It is not proof of guilt. They can write all the tickets they want but they have to be able to prove their case in court. Granted, their word holds merit. If it didn't they would serve no purpose but nonetheless, if you feel you are wrongly charged, you have a right to plead not guilty, present your evidence for your defense which could be as simple as a witness, and let the courts decide.

Bob

[ozzie]

the poster stated that they were in the wrong for not having the lights on....but the CO has absolutely no right to not have both the lights on their boat. If I would have seen this I would have caused a ruckuss over them not having their lights on for the simple fact that lakes and rivers are not like roadways where you have to stick to the road....you can turn on a dime and start going the other way...for an officer or anyone to not have lights on is a danger to people on the lake!!!

[gatorhunter]

Depends what the laws say. Many jurisdictions have laws that allow peace officers to conduct motor vehicle operations at night without lights. It may be that way with boats too.

[harvey lee]

I guess what the Co did will not make any difference in ones fine. He maybe should not have done what he did but that wont excuse another from the law.

[Muddog]

Was it the DNR or the county water patrol?

That is a big night for tickets on the water. Kinda like driving without lights at 2am on January 1st.

[Northlander]

It doesnt matter what the C.O. or whoever it was did! They were breaking the law and they can now pay the fine. No excuses they could have hurt someone or themselves.

[BobT]

I don't think anyone is questioning the fine, northlander. I think the question has been the illegal activity of the conservation officers. Being an officer of the law does not translate into officer above the law.

Bob

[hardwaterfishing]

You are correct. I was not asking if the fine was right, of course it is. Its breaking the law. It just bugs me that they can go put other people at risk by boating around with their lights off. And then say that they never drive with their lights off.

[Questor]

Peer pressure strikes again. Your uncle should have had his white beacon on.

My tale of interest related to this is that I quit night fishing because I got tired of being on lakes where there are people running speedboats at full speed at night with no lights on the boat. It makes for a dangerous situation.

[PierBridge]

Quote:

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Peer pressure strikes again. Your uncle should have had his white beacon on.

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I disagree the Officer should have used discretion and issued a warning.

For God's sake it was the 4th of July if they gave tickets on my lake on 4th for no lights during the short time the fire works are going on they could retire the National dept.

We have sat with our lights off and the Conservation Officers tied up to our pontoon for the 4th of July fireworks for the last 20 years it's tradition.

I side with the Law Enforcement 99 percent of the time this one SUCKS!

Oh! and save your little whining rants about how unsafe it is! this CO did more to endanger anyone himself by OPERATING his Boat with no lights on then you guys sitting there for a few minutes with no lights on...GEEZ!

[Questor]

Pierbridge:

I agree with you. I meant that, in general, boaters are required to have a white beacon when operating at night.

[BobT]

Not even in general. It is required always. Watching the fireworks without them is in violation even if the CO is among and one of the violators.

Bob

[Grant Pearson]

Quote:

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Do you think it was right for the DNR to do this? My aunt and uncle were out in there boat on July 4th they live right on Games Lake. Anyway they decided to go out in their boat so they could watch all the fireworks shoot off. So they go out there. They see one other boat come out stop over by the channel and shut its lights off. Keep in mind it is dark out. About tem minutes later another boat goes right to where the first boat was and shuts there lights off. So my uncle decide to shut his lights of to keep the bugs away. A little while later they see a big wake coming at them. It was a boat coming right at them. He said that the boat was about 20 yards away and they both switched their lights on at the same time. It turns out it is the DNR officer. he said you should of had their lights on and gave them a lecture and a ticket. Before the DNR left he asked my uncle do you have and questions for me. My uncle then asked him, Do you ever drive with your lights off? The DNR said no and drove off. SO the C.O. drove a few hundred yards without his lights. I don’t know if my uncle went to court to fight it but I saw in the paper he got fined. He didn’t mind paying the fine because he knew he was in the wrong already. But I don’t see how the DNR can travel without their lights on. I herd other stories of this C.O. and it sounds like he is a real ......

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what lake was this on so when I talk to the LT I know what area was being covered?

[irvingdog]

"Above the law" is a poor arguement. They take and use tactics that civilians can't use.

The lights may or may not have been off. The may extinguish lightsin the course of using stealth while trying to monitor a big lake while remianing unseen. And you can bet that the cops out there are A) sober and alert.

If officers have to toe every line in terms of the law, you pretty much eliminate the ability to pursue at high speeds.

And my guess (with all due respect) is that maybe the fine-payers never noticed the lights on an incoming boat.

Benefit of the doubt in my court? Cops.

[sparcebag]

Quote:

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Quote:

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Do you think it was right for the DNR to do this? My aunt and uncle were out in there boat on July 4th they live right on Games Lake. Anyway they decided to go out in their boat so they could watch all the fireworks shoot off. So they go out there. They see one other boat come out stop over by the channel and shut its lights off. Keep in mind it is dark out. About tem minutes later another boat goes right to where the first boat was and shuts there lights off. So my uncle decide to shut his lights of to keep the bugs away. A little while later they see a big wake coming at them. It was a boat coming right at them. He said that the boat was about 20 yards away and they both switched their lights on at the same time. It turns out it is the DNR officer. he said you should of had their lights on and gave them a lecture and a ticket. Before the DNR left he asked my uncle do you have and questions for me. My uncle then asked him, Do you ever drive with your lights off? The DNR said no and drove off. SO the C.O. drove a few hundred yards without his lights. I don’t know if my uncle went to court to fight it but I saw in the paper he got fined. He didn’t mind paying the fine because he knew he was in the wrong already. But I don’t see how the DNR can travel without their lights on. I herd other stories of this C.O. and it sounds like he is a real ......

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what lake was this on so when I talk to the LT I know what area was being covered?

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right on Games Lake. Second sentence.Also there is such a thing as a citizens arrest,but you have to wiat till an officer arrives,and press charges.

[BobT]

Your analogy using the high speed chase may sound plausible but there is a flaw. State troopers are not allowed to run around at high speed in the normal performance of their duties. Giving chase and just performing their everyday tasks are two different things, which is what they were doing according to this story. If our police officers were allowed to operate above the law, there would be a lot fewer criminals able to run loose, terrorizing neighborhoods, trading drugs, etc. No offense to our officers of the law but at the same time there would likely be a lot of unreasonable searches, unreasonable seizures, no due process, and a lot more innocent persons either imprissoned or worse. There's a trade-off for our freedoms because freedom is more than just from other nations. It is from oppressive government.

Bob

[irvingdog]

Allright then; lets correct the analogy.

It's illegal to park on the shoulder of a highway, but that's where police park to use the radar guns.

A lake is a big, flat thing with great sight-lines. Stealth is part of the game......

[BobT]

I believe they are also required to park with their parking lights illuminated, aren't they?

I've given this a little more thought and would like to take it even more extreme. In most cities it is unlawful to discharge a firearm within city limits. By your analogy, it would be perfectly okay for law officers to go around randomly taking pot shots at citizens or even criminals because they are able to use their weapons when it is necessary. I don't think so. It is just as unlawful for them to use their weapons in town as you or I unless conditions warrant the need and it is a real pain in the neck when they do use them.

On a lake, sight lines disappear after dark, especially on a cloudy night during a new moon. If it weren't for lights on shore, it would be all but impossible for anyone to see much of anything on the water. Most boats won't go up on plane below 10-15mph so moving at slowest speed while maintaining plane would introduce serious hazards were it not for that little white anchor light.

I'm not buying it, sorry.

Bob

[irvingdog]

I'm calling "analogy abuse".

You've gone to far with that one.

[BobT]

Yeah, I know.

Bob

[PierBridge]

Nothing is going to happen to the CO who drove away with his lights out and I doubt it's illegal anyway.

I think most CO's use good discretion and would have in this instance like on our lake for the one hour a year on the 4th of July for the fire works.

Again I know its technically illegal for US....

[Grant Pearson]

I talked to my friend, LT CO Leland Owens and he stated that it was perfectly legal for a CO to drive up like that.

[CatManLee]

You should have gotten a fine for not having the lights on...the law is the law and this one is in place for your and everyone elses safety. As far as the CO driving or even sitting without lights, he too should get a fine, will he get a fine, probably not, but he too was breaking the law. IMO

A little different, but kind of funny story from the same ball park...anyways, a few years ago I was driving near the edge of town during a fairly bad snow storm (delivering stuff). I looked both ways before crossing the road and didn't see any headlights, so I started across and all of a sudden there was a car, A COP, crap! Anyways he pulled me over and was really mad that I pulled out in front of him. He asked me what my big hurry was and was telling me how I should be more careful, etc. After he finished his rant, I told him it was because he didn't have his headlights on and it's kind of hard to see a car coming in a snow storm when they don't have their headlights on. It was the funniest thing because he didn't say sorry, or bye or anything, he just looked at his car and saw his headlights where off, then went back to his car, got in and drove off. He was speachless and it was priceless...Loved it.

[Grant Pearson]

I hope he at least turned his headlights on then......