Thanks for the info everyone. And Borch that is good to know too. I try to spend 2-3 hours looking on cedar each trip, but It's a lot of water to break down , and having only been out hardwater cattin 6 times so far I still have a lot to learn. Generally I spend a lot of my 3 hours losing confidence and then wind up at the meth hole to catch a few . Putting in the work is what makes it so fun once it all comes together though!