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chucker34

Potential for Baiting to Become Legal in Minnesota???

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Didn't want to hijack the hunting over bait post so I created another. In that post, jlm said there is a serious movement for baiting to be made legal in the state? Anyone know anything about this? jlm? lcornice? What actions have been taken by groups in support with the Legislature so far???

If this is going to be debated in the Legislature soon or has already been, it is important both sides be allowed to voice their support/opposition as this could be one of the biggest hunting-related changes in this state in the past 100 years.

YIKES

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Quote:

Didn't want to hijack the hunting over bait post so I created another. In that post, jlm said there is a serious movement for baiting to be made legal in the state? Anyone know anything about this? jlm? lcornice? What actions have been taken by groups in support with the Legislature so far???

If this is going to be debated in the Legislature soon or has already been, it is important both sides be allowed to voice their support/opposition as this could be one of the biggest hunting-related changes in this state in the past 100 years.

YIKES


I'm not aware of any movement serious or otherwise to allow baiting for deer. In fact, I'm pretty sure MDHA is opposed to deer baiting as well. I honestly don't see it happening in this state.

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That's good news. I am obviously against it. Again, not criticizing those who do it legally in states that allow it, but just my hope that it never be allowed here.

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I'm not aware of any movement serious or otherwise to allow baiting for deer. In fact, I'm pretty sure MDHA is opposed to deer baiting as well. I honestly don't see it happening in this state.


Thats what I like to hear!!!!

I don't know of any hunters that I know that want to start deer baiting in MN. I'm also happy to see the DNR doing more enforcement against illegal deer baiting.

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Then food plots and AG fields should be illeagel.

How many have shot a deer feeding on crops or harvest spill??? What is the difference between a "so called spill" and someone pouring or growing to attract...

Kind of hard to not when hunting SW MN but yet neither are indigenous

OR any of the spill on the ground attractants or the all time favorite salt lick...

How about if they base the rules like waterfowl..Illeagle to hunt on a line going to "Baited field"... read how the feds define bait... It would sure slow up the majority of deer killed in this state. The auto Ins co will like that.

I bow hunted in Wi were they deer come out of the woods to the sound of a coffee can with corn rattling in it.Similar to some farm activities.

I have shot many deer feeding in harvested fields where you could see residue.Cant realy see much of a difference between harvest residue and intended site control by baiting...

Like running bear with dogs aint my cup of tea but it is to others.

If its structured and regulated then so be it ... .

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Baiting has never bothered me too much. One of the bigger concerns might be the spread of CWD with many deer eating at the same food pile with saliva being on the remaining corn that other deer may eat. I do believe that CWD can spread that way and also may be a huge concern for the DNR.

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I am totally against baiting for deer. I was for it before doing some research. There was a particular paper written by a former long term Wisconsin game warden describing the way deer hunting and deer hunters have changed in areas now allowing deer baiting that changed my thinking.

I hope Minnesota never allows deer baiting.

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I also hope baiting is never allowed, a person really knows how to HUNT deer if they bait huh? It's just not hunting in my mind and how I was raised.

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Just an FYI.

Baiting deer used to be legal in MN but little baiting took place. That was a time when deer numbers were very low in Northern MN. With the deer herd at record high levels now and baiting illegal, it must be public opinion that brought about that change because if the ban was used as a management tool it wouldn't make sense.

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Honestly I'm on the fence about baiting for deer. I bow hunt in Wisconsin where it's legal to bait deer and I believe you’re allowed 2 gallons per 40 acre.

Once the deer and other critters find the corn it's usually gone every night. Which makes it difficult to spread CWD, if in fact it is spread by saliva? I think the verdict is still out on that, but I believe it was a step in the right direction.

I used to stumble across rather large piles of corn while scouting new areas after morning stand years ago and I could see where there could be quite a large number of deer feeding off these bait sites.

This brings me to why I don’t like baiting. We already have a problem with baiting in Minnesota, and it’s illegal. I can’t imagine the abuse that would take place if it was legalized.

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I'm sick of reading 'there is no difference between a food plot and baiting'... We've spent 3 days already this year on the land we hunt in MN getting a master plan put together and hiring out some clearing work and turning soils, and now we have about 4 days more work to put in the plots towards the end of AUgust. These plots will be used year round by ALL wildlife to become stronger and healthier. The deer herd will recieve additional benefits from having a food source available year round. We have done this to the land I hunt in WI and it not only took 3 years to complete, you start over on many of the plots after 3 years to freshen them up... it's an ongoing project. Most of the food plots we have in WI are not even hunted. 2 of the bigger ones in MN we are gonna put in will not be hunted. Many of the plots that we do hunt are to big to be effective for bowhunting... no where to set up for a good shot. You end up hunting the trails that lead to the area... you need to pattern where they are coming from and where they are going into the plot. You can't move the food plot like you can a pile of corn!

Baiting is a simple act of placing some "BAIT" in an exact spot for the purpose of killing an animal. It takes almost no work (time measured in minutes not days) and benefits animals (in terms of food or habitat) little, if any, for any length of time. It is generally an easy way to harvest a deer in less time without having to pattern them. We baited in WI in the past so I've seen baiting and seen how it alters their movements. You move the bait... you move the deer. It does little for me. We have now gone the food plot route and have seen a dramatic change in the herd and how they move and spread out on the property.

If you are hunting an AG field and the "spill" is obivous, you are hunting over bait and can be tagged if a CO is pointed out to the situation. If it is residue left over from normal farming practices, it is legal and not bait. This is no different than hunting an AG field while waterfowl hunting. If the food source is puposefully placed there with the intent to attract animals, it is baiting... left overs in the field are legal, no matter how you want to slice and dice it... as long as the food source isn't manipulated, then you aren't attracting them to an exact area to be killed, only to a 'field' in general... 160 acre field of residue is a lot different than a five gallon bucket of corn dumped out at the base of a tree right off a trail.

No way, no how, should baiting become legal. You have states that allow it now, that are rescinding the rule or greatly modifying it. NoDak has or is about ready to make it illegal, WI is down to limiting a pile to 2 gallons or less, etc. The only problem is, once it's engrained in the hunting crowd, it's hard to change the practice. WI still has monster piles of bait out and I already heard form one farmer in NoDak that he is going to continue to bait, illegal or not. That's how thye hunt... that's the only way they know... Everyone is afraid of the neighbor 'out baiting' them, so it escalates into who can provide the biggest bait pile to attract the most deer... instead of letting nature taking it's course and allowing the animals to spread out. Sounds like shooting rats at a dump!

Good Luck!

Ken

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Labs,

How is planting a plot any different that a LEAGLE bait pile. Everyone keeps on saying the biggest bait pile wins, I guess you win because I guarantee your plot is bigger than my 2 gallons of bait...

Also I see all of these trail cams pics, and about %95 of them have some type of bait, being a mineral block, apples, corn. Labs do you think they are doing this just to get a photo? Do you think if you stop baiting a month befoe season the deer are just going to stop going there?

Also you state it took you 3 days to finish a plot, guess what, I bait 3 times Per week, so your 3 days of prep is doesn’t sound to bad now does it...

shocked.gif

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If you didn't hunt would you still plant food plots?

Food plots are much more work and I can see a great benefit year round for the wildlife but isn't the outcome, at least for the hunter, the same?

I'm not saying food plots are the same as baiting, I'm just trying to understand the argument.

Personally if I owned land, I'd be planting food plots mainly because I hunt.

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I am also against baiting for deer, if your regulations allow it, do what you want, i just hope they don't change in Minnesota. As far as food plots go, i don't have any because most of my bow hunting is on public land when i am at school, and i don't really think that i ever will. food plots are work and do provide food year round, still a little on the fence about them.

While at home i hunt the farm, between my father and grandfather we have 200 acres of fields, swamp, brush, hardwood, grass, a little bit of everything. leading to my question:

Muthagoose-

so you don't think that i should be able to hunt our fields, so if we want to hunt, we should not plant in the area where we want to hunt? i don't think so. After all they are eating OUR crops WE planted. they would not be nearly as plentyful or as fat if they were not eating our crops. just because you are hunting a field doesn't guarantee anything. you have to pattern them and learn their habits(man i have a lot of learning to do yet!!). I see you live in the north woods, i have not been to virginia, i don't know the lay of the land. If it is like it is near duluth, it is a different style of hunting, for me anyway.

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On the lines of baiting i have a question, if it is off topic mods please delete this.

So one of the places i am thinking about hunting is on a fenceline between a field(this year beans) some grass hay, and some brush. for later in the season if i would sit there after we combine it and there is a small pile of grain there would it be considered baiting? I ask this because once in a while small piles of grain end up on the ground, usually because somebody forgot to close the door on the gravity box, or because we had to do some repairs and some got spilt on the ground. This happens at one end only of the field because it is land locked and there is a field access road at the one end, and this is where everything like that happens. It just so happens that is where deer like to travel and a decent place to sit.

It will probably be up to the CO if this would happen, kind of a what if question.

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I think a person should be able to hunt fields,plots and whatever.

Spent plenty of time working food plots this year and hunt bear by baiting. I grew up in a tree stand overlooking a corn or alfalfa field so of course.

Hunted various ways/places in the state and timber hunting sucks compared to a corn field

It is sooooo much easier to hunt a food plot in timber country.Which is where I have been on my days off because its leagle.

But as feds define baiting in the cfr , concerning harvest residue in fields "line of travel to" is also considered illeagle. Enter in the word indigenous and it changes everything to the right people in this state.

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Quote:

How is planting a plot any different that a LEAGLE bait pile


I thought I just did a whole post on that... baiting: In essence it's placing a pile of an unnatural food source in an exact area, solely for the purpose of killing an animal. Food Plot: A food plot is a year round food source and an extension of the habitiat, only improved. Most food plots will not 'hold' deer during daylight hours of the hunting season... when they sense pressure, they will not come out in the open till after dark. A pile of corn in the woods will draw deer through out the day. They find security in the woods. You can put piles of corn where no food plot will ever flourish.

Quote:

Also you state it took you 3 days to finish a plot, guess what, I bait 3 times Per week, so your 3 days of prep is doesn’t sound to bad now does it...


Ah... that'll end up being 2 guys, 6-7 days total (8-12 hours a day) just to get them in... then there'll be weed management, fertilizing, mowing, and overseeding in the subsequent months and years to come... your 30 minutes x 3 a week to dump out a 2 gallon bucket of corn doesn't sound that bad to me right now! grin.gif Plus a lot of this is done in the heat of the summer and bug season... believe me, I'd rather be fishing!!!

Quote:

Also I see all of these trail cams pics, and about %95 of them have some type of bait, being a mineral block, apples, corn. Labs do you think they are doing this just to get a photo? Do you think if you stop baiting a month befoe season the deer are just going to stop going there?


I'm not saying that there are not that MANY guys in Minnesota already baiting, I think it is becoming rampant... still don't agree with it. Especially because in Minnesota it is ILLEGAL!!! Might as well shoot before and after the season and throw out shooting hours to boot. Can't obey some laws and not others. I get trail cam pics off our food plots and off of regularily used trails. No need to put out bait to see them. If I baited, I wouldn't need a trail cam as I already know where they'll be!

Quote:

Everyone keeps on saying the biggest bait pile wins, I guess you win because I guarantee your plot is bigger than my 2 gallons of bait...


Corn is like a drug to deer. I know the neighbor next to the land we hunt in WI baits. I've seen deer go over to his land 1st to see if any corn is available! I hunt a creek bottom with many connecting trails, and a food plot above me on higher ground. I can watch as deer go over, either eat and come back or come back immediatley if there is no corn available. Every deer I've gutted up there has corn in it, and there is not a corn field around for many miles. Food plots do not have that "draw" that corn does. But in the spring clover is a HUGE magnet as they are looking for that 1st green growth to browse. It is high in carbs and protein... This helps the does when they fawn and produce more milk when they nurse. There is also a lot of carbs in plants like brassicas and turnips to help them get ready for winter.

Quote:

If you didn't hunt would you still plant food plots?


That depends on if I owned land that supported wildlife or not... I love habitat improvement. The land we've put the food plots on so far is the land we deer hunt. (Yes a benefit of food plots is more animals on the land, thus hopefully greater success when hunting) We do it not just to entice animals to an area... trust me, we don't hunt every food plot we install... but to give them a chance of good beneficial food year round. It doesn't just benefit deer. Turkeys, grouse, rabbits and even bear eat the different mixes. I've seen turkeys, and ducks nesting in them and song birds hunting insects in them ...

I have 3 acres in the city of Cottage Grove. I cannot hunt on it. I have added 2 acres of prairie grass for the pheasant and turkeys and planted many evergreen trees and crab apples for food and cover to any and all the wildlife. I have planted clover in the one little opening in the patch of woods I have and on a couple of occassions seen deer in there, but mostly the bunnies reap those rewards. If it held deer, I'd put in a better plot just to watch them and to give them more green forage. The few deer I've seen (less than 20 in 12 years), are passing through. My 1/3 - 1/2 acre of woods will not hold deer.

As I've stated before baiting is not my cup of tea either. If your state allows it and you choose to do it... by all means carry on. I don't hold anything against the way one chooses to hunt if it's legal. I just hope it does not come to Minnesota, as I know you can hunt without bait. We can/could do it in WI and have gone more the food plot route and have seen a big difference in the size of the deer, both bucks and does and the carrying capacity of the land. It is a ton of work but it is rewarding... The land owner in WI still will put out a small pile of corn for his young teenage sons to bowhunt over. I know baiting is effective just from seeing that. The sole reason is to draw them into that small area so they have an opportunity at success. Imay see a few deer a hunt, his sons will see 20 deer a hunt. It is deadly, but unnatural. I'm O.K. with it too... it is in there legal parameters to do it. It took me years to get a deer with my bow... now if you wish, it takes days. You do not have to scout near as much as in the 'old' days. Figure out where you want your stand and set it up. Put out your corn and wait for the deer to re-configure their patterns to where you want to be. It will happen. When I began bow hunting, I needed to find trails and food sources much like a fisherman does looking for structure to catch fish. Oak ridges, low willow thickets, beaver dams, old logging roads... etc. Once you unlock the proper full spectrum of their living quarters, you begin to garner success. It took many seasons of adjustments to get there. Maybe I'm just too traditional when it comes to deer hunting. I like the work that's needed to pattern them.

I hope that clarifies my position a little more.

Good Luck!

Ken

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Hey Labs, I just moved to Newport. Do you know of any little spots to duck hunt around here?

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I remain on the edge on this topic. From my own perspective I believe baiting is essentially the placement or use of specific elements that attract over time for the purpose of generating a habit that the hunter can exploit. From this I can say that to some degree I disagree with LABS view that food plots are not baiting. Food plots do provide nutrition for the deer and of course other wildlife but so does a pile of corn. By LAB's definition a food plot containing living corn plants would not be baiting but if I harvest the ears and scatter them over a couple acre area I am baiting. Seems like a contradiction.

Personally, even if it was legal I don't expect I would use what we have come to believe is bait for deer. At the same time I do use natural environmental factors to my advantage. That is to say that I will concentrate my hunt in areas that I believe are likely hangouts including feeding/watering areas such as oak groves, cedar groves, apple trees, farm fields, small streams and ponds, bedding areas, and travel corridors. To specifically plant food plots, or drag a bag full of apples, corn cobs, salt, etc. is beyond what I am willing to do whether legal or not. But then, I have been blessed with good hunting for the past 15+ years and perhaps my view would change if we returned to the hunting we had in the 1970s and 80s.

I like the law as it stands.

Bob

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I will give my .002 even though it isnt worth that much.

I grew up hunting in southern mn, hunted it since I was 12, 24years (wow) I had the luxury of hunting some good land, had a funnel area, in the middle of a field, next to a creek, on their way to their bedding area. I have shot many many deer out of this spot, only 2 yrs without a deer, best year 5 deer, of them biggest 13pt, and two tens in the same day. In southern mn I see baiting to be not much of an issue, lots of ag land, lots of smaller woods, I dont think it should be legal in southern mn.

That being said, I started hunting northern wisconsin 7 years ago, where this is no ag land, and you just have thousands of acres of woods, Im sure it is simular to northern mn. Up there you need every bit of help you can to lure the deer to you, I do bait deer when I am hunting in wisconsin, but I do year around, I go up there about every 2 weeks, I bring corn, apples, pumpkins, whatever is abundant at the time I go up there, this year I planted some food plots also, I still throw some food out for them. I dont just do it during hunting, I do it all year , about every 2 weeks. Sure There is alot more activity going on in the woods when I bait, but that doesnt gaurnetee me a deer, but, it helps my odds. When you have that much solid woods you need to do something to bring them into your area, and keep them there all year. You can say I just need to set up in a better area, but I only own so much acerage, so I need to draw them in to me.

I think if they do legalize it in mn, it should be a north/south thing, not a state wide deal.

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email me: ken at wincolandscape (Contact Us Please) com

I'll give you what I have... we may even need to meet and I can show you on a map... some nice out of the way places, but some may be dry this year. I used to duck hunt the heck out of the river bottoms, but they aren't what they were in the late 70s and 80's.

Good Luck!

Ken

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In N. MN where I hunt, hunters have been talking about getting a grass roots movement going for years (to allow it). Its really getting to be a big deal and just needs someone to take the lead! In all honesty, my estimation is that only 1 in 10 hunters in that area voice opposition to baiting. However, this certainly is a very small amount of people given the entire hunting population. Unfortunatly, baiting in my area is the norm and MANY people engage in it. I am a food plot guy myself, started many years ago before the food plot craze took off like it is today. I agree with Labs, plots are much different than baiting, however, I agree with others as well, the end result is that it is used to harvest deer (plus additional benefits as well). I am on the fence but I would support legal baiting if there were restrictions. It would not change anything for me really, seems like most bait anyway. In my opinion, baiting is a good and REASONABLE management tool that is ethical and legal in other states and could be used in MN. On the other hand, if MN remains the way it does today, I would be happy with that as well. I am willing to bet that we would see more private land owners supporting it and public users in opposition. Who knows.

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I use to be against baiting, however the more i think about it the more i don't see anything wrong with it for instance, what is the difference between using bait such as corn or apples to attract deer or using doe estrus or setting up in an apple orchard or by a corn field or using rattling antlers or a fake scrape site. Really are these all not forms of baiting in one way or another? The argument about spreading CWD is BS if u think about it and somebody correct me if i'm wrong here but isn't it legal to bait or feed deer on your property before the season starts? How is it that you can't bait deer during the season because you may spread CWD but it's perfectly ok to do it any other time? I think as fellow hunters we all need to stick together, our enemy is not our neighbor baiting deer on his property, but the non-hunters and the hippies who are trying to ban any form of hunting altogether. If baiting does become legal here like it is in many other states so what, if your against it then don't do it. just my .02

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Quote:

If you didn't hunt would you still plant food plots?


YES!! The biggest pleasure I get from my corn food plot actually comes in Jan/Feb/March when I can sit with my spotting scope, with coffee cup in hand, and watch 10-20 deer leave the food plot early on Sunday morning. The corn food plot and the other food plots (clover, sunflowers, grain sorghum, and turnips) fit in with all the other habitat work that I've done. I've created ponds, planted several thousand trees, thinned out trees to create thicker growths, planted native prairie, etc. Provide the three basics - food, water, shelter and wildlife will come. Most are non-huntable. Last night I was sitting on my deck with a cold one, listening to the Twins game, binoculars in hand, watching the last of my martins fly around their houses. I also saw a doe with two spotted fawns, another doe wading into a pond to eat the water plants, two batches of ducklings, a couple of hummingbirds, a blackbird feeding it young, a couple of cottontails, some yellow finches. It was a nice end to a hot day.

Planting food plots is just one small component to my overall habitat plan and I do it because I like seeing all kinds of wildlife.

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I use to be against baiting, however the more i think about it the more i don't see anything wrong with it for instance, what is the difference between using bait such as corn or apples to attract deer or using doe estrus or setting up in an apple orchard or by a corn field or using rattling antlers or a fake scrape site. Really are these all not forms of baiting in one way or another? The argument about spreading CWD is BS if u think about it and somebody correct me if i'm wrong here but isn't it legal to bait or feed deer on your property before the season starts? How is it that you can't bait deer during the season because you may spread CWD but it's perfectly ok to do it any other time? I think as fellow hunters we all need to stick together, our enemy is not our neighbor baiting deer on his property, but the non-hunters and the hippies who are trying to ban any form of hunting altogether. If baiting does become legal here like it is in many other states so what, if your against it then don't do it. just my .02


According to the Alabama Wildlife Federation. They feel somewhat different in regards to the spread of CWD through bait piles along with many states.

A number of states that have allowed baiting in the past have now outlawed the practice due to the role of baiting in the spread of these diseases. States that have a full or partial ban on baiting include: AL, AK, CA, CO, CT, GA, ID, IL, IN, IA, ME, MA, MI, MN, MS, MO, MT, NM, NY, PA, RI, SC, TN, VA, WI, WY &WV.

There are many states DNR who are concerned about the spread of CWD through bait piles, right or wrong we dont know yet but they are concerned. The argument could go on forever about baiting and CWD. Are the states right in thier thinking, I do not know but, it might not be a bad idea to error on the side of safety.

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