Is the DNR suspect here ?

[Faner50]

It would seem to me that all the emotion being displayed over regs and affect on business comes down to how well or how poorly the DNR counts the fish kill as it applies to the quotas.

I am from the twin cities. I visit ML maybe 10 times a year, including winter trips. In those trips I find it very difficult to catch a slot limit or even half a slot limit for that matter. I have done very very very well catching fish OVER THE SLOT LIMIT which I released as quickly as possible. Most people I have talked to about how well they did said the same thing. Lots of big ones but not much within the slot.

So, at least with my success (or lack thereof concerning slot fish) I wonder where the DNR gets a count of 400,000 plus lbs killed so far this year ? ? ? ? Who the heck is catching all the little ones that make up the count ? ? ?

I wonder how the "rest of the tourist communities/businesses around the state" are doing while ML attacts the masses ?

Its all so crazy ain't it ??

[skunked_again]

I for one do very well on slot fish. I have taken my limit of 4 home 3 times this year. Of course, this all depends on the area you are fishing. Shallow rocks before dark usually produce slot fish for me, while the mud flats do once in a while, but not nearly as often. So lets see...4 fish times 2 lbs. thats 8 pounds times 3 = 24 pounds, and that's for one person this year, not counting my friends or the other 5 billion anglers out there, or the hooking mortality. I can easily see 400,000 lbs. I ain't saying that that is the safe limit for Mille Lacs, but I guess we'll all have to trust the DNR on that. I would rather catch a 25" walleye and let her go than a 18 or 16" anyways, wouldn't you?

[Faner50]

Sure I like catching the bigger fish (C/R). Of the 400,000 plus pounds of fish killed consisting of a heavy percentage of slot fish, there must be a freaking BAZILLION pounds of walleye in that lake. 400,000 pounds slot fish, plus ALL THE BIG ONES (5 to 1 IMO) equals a BAZILLION. My question remains...is the DNRs' hand held calculator accurate when determining slot size, limit, and NEW RULES?

BTW...I have fished ML for the past 26 years. I have yet to see a DNR warden or creel census person either on the lake or at a landing. You'd think in all that time I would have seen at least one.

[Carp-fisher]

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400,000 pounds slot fish, plus ALL THE BIG ONES (5 to 1 IMO) equals a BAZILLION.

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Which am I to trust a team of the some of the world’s most competent fisheries biologists, or one guy with some math from the hip? We’ve all seen what a small group of guys with nets can do to a body of water larger than Mille Lacs. Fish populations are far more vulnerable to overharvest than most people think. Hats off to the DNR.

[tight_line]

I've said it before and I've read from other posts. The DNR does not deserve credit for managing this fishery. They manage it based on poundage, not for any biological reasons what so ever. What they need to do is act on some of the very good ideas brought to them from resort owners and locals that attend these input meetings, like building a special hatchery to replace the fish that are netted, and/or buying out the Wisc. Bands on there quotas so they will not have any reason to come over here and dip there nets in the spring. They need to do something other than this tight slot in the middle of the season, and the notion of shutting the fishey down completely is ridiculous.

[ozzie]

so when there wasn't a slot and the fishing for most was tough and mille lacs received the name "the dead sea" the DNR has nothing to do with how well the fishery has been producing??? they intoduce a slot and monitor the lake and change the slot accordingly but it is not for managing the fishery it is to abide by the treaty??? I think you might have slice of the truth that they have to abide by the treaty but i am sure that the lake's health is more of an issue!!!

[Black_Bay]

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I've said it before and I've read from other posts. The DNR does not deserve credit for managing this fishery. They manage it based on poundage, not for any biological reasons what so ever. What they need to do is act on some of the very good ideas brought to them from resort owners and locals that attend these input meetings, like building a special hatchery to replace the fish that are netted, and/or buying out the Wisc. Bands on there quotas so they will not have any reason to come over here and dip there nets in the spring. They need to do something other than this tight slot in the middle of the season, and the notion of shutting the fishey down completely is ridiculous.

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Everyone is right saying the DNR doesn't manage the lake for biological reasons. Instead the Supreme Court of the United States found in favor of the Bands and mandates who should get what. The DNR CANNOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. They cannot buy the Bands out even if the bands would be interested. Building a hatchery to replace fish and try to keep things in balance is one of the funniest things I've heard in a long time. That idea obviously came from someone who has no knowledge of hatchery management or fisheries management.

BTW The DNR has bent over backwards in the past extending the ice fishing season because resorters complained. Also no one can predict the kind of bite that occured on Mille Lacs nor can they predict a bad one. The DNR can make guesses based on the amount of available forage but they are only guesses.

[eyewarrior]

I believe the tribe & the DNR together determine the safe harvest level for the year, than proportion % to tribe & % to sports fishing. I would think that the DNR would be able to come up with a reasonable slot that should work for the entire season. Maybe not quite so liberal early on to allow for a better slot later in the year. Although last years slot didn't seem to have anybody complaining.

[palisade1kid]

It just seems to be a lot of shooting yourself in the foot to save your face.

The slot is there to save the fishery ,but what about all of the hooked fish that die that could be eaten.

What a waiste.

Like in deer hunting you buy extra permit tags.

Maybe buying extra fish tags which could support a stocking program to offset the alloted amount there by extending the season.

It seems ridiculous to have all of that waisted meated floating around.

Why can't we do something about that?

In my family we never waisted meat,so that die off really bothers me!

Nobody can have the meat yet we would let others go hungry...go figure!

That's America for you!

[ole matty]

if you dont like how dnr or resort handling up at mille lacs.. just dont go anymore and quit whining...

[BRULEDRIFTER]

What is with the mentality that the DNR is out to ruin fishing for people, or that there's some kind of conspiracy going on???

The DNR if funded by US! the folks who buy licenses, bait, tackle, ect. Why in the heck would they not be trying to do what is best for the fishery??? If no one buys licenses, they don't have jobs! Biological data is based on statistical data gathered in a random fashion so there is no bias. This is how they come up with the numbers they do, they're not totally accurate, but if you've ever played with statistics, you'd be suprised just how close it is. The DNR follows standards and guidelines set by the North American Fisheries Society ( I believe). They also have only so much money to spend on various projects throughout the state. Sure, we all can debate till our faces are blue as to where the money should be focused, but the big problem there is there are so many intrests involved and, heck, ya can't please everyone so ya try to do a little for everybody.

This slot on Mille is tough, but if it wasn't set, there'd be as many people out there moaning about the lack of fish in the coming years and "why didn't the DNR do something about it before it came to this". The slot is in the best intrests of the fishery overall. It stinks for the resort owners (especially them), and for the meat hunters out there, but it needs to be in place so just maybe the fishing can be this good every year.

As for the hooking mortality, it's just a fact of fishing in the heat of the summer. It would be nice to just keep them so they're not wasted, but how would that be regulated and enforced? Seems pretty much impossible, IMO. Anyone could keep a fish and say, "hey, it was dead when I let it go".

There are over 10,000 lakes out there and most of them have walleyes, but not many have Trophy walleyes. Let's enjoy it and do our part to help preserve an amazing fishery!

[james_walleye]

A fishery that is almost second too none in the U.S. and some people still complain. Where does this fishery have too stand before people stop complaining. How much better does it have too be? I mean complaining about a lake that the DNR has managed too a point where its actually easy too catch 25" walleyes. How many lakes in this state is it easy too catch just a 20" walleye? Not many. Yet this lake still isnt good enough. I dont get it.

[Shack]

Post deleted by shackbash

[ikatcher]

smalliies, muskies, northerns, and perch fishing aren't to shabby either

[c&amagn]

I have been fishing Mille Lacs for over 22-years now and have only ever seen any DNR person, truck, boat, or creel survey person I think 3-times in that whole time frame, both open water and ice time. A person would sure think that they would see more DNR Anything around that Lake right? Like I've said before Including myself and about 30-other fisherman about 10-boats worth that I personally know, have yet to see a DNR CO, boat, truck, creel survey person, or a DNR volunteer checking boat trailers for Milfoil yet this year when I think this year is pretty controversial with the slot changes. I'M NOT REALY CONVINCED THEY HAVE ALL THEIR FACTS STRAIT if you ask me?

[ozzie]

The last 2 years alone I have been checked 3 times Ice fishing on different parts of the lake...........The DNR is out there!!!! I am positive they aren't armchair qb's on this subject!!!

[rms]

I fish Mille lacs quite often and see the DNR more than once every year. I've been checked by the DNR on the lake, I've been polled by the survey takers (at resort and public launches), I've seen them doing their mortality study, and doing their annual fall netting surveys. They are on the lake almost every day. They know what is going on in the lake. I think they know exactly what they are doing to manage the lake for the biological and legal parameters they need to meet.

Personally, I think buying some of the poundage from the Wisconsin netters would be the easiest fix, but there are more issues there than dollars and cents. Putting a hatchery on the lake when there have been problems due to lack of forage doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

[Faner50]

Concerning the netting....

In my opinion, if I was associated with the casino/band, I would want as many fisherman on the lake as possible. Many do stop to gamble. I guess I would meet with my fellow band members, cut the gill netting down, pay some of my casino profits to the Wisc band and give more poundage to the anglers. But thats just me.

[Harmonica Bear]

Maybe they should just net the floating fish

[PierBridge]

The DNR puts more time and resources into Mille Lacs then any other Lake in the state bar none.

Some will say that is part of the problem its their BABY they want to make it into ULTIMATE Fishery in the Country.

Did I say some think the DNR is too hands on with Mille Lacs.....

[Scott M]

Man Bruledrifter, you nailed it on the head! The DNR is full of people who went to lots of school to earn tiny paychecks and ruin your fishing!!!!! We should go with the guys doing the math on the fly that "are out there every day" because the DNR isn't doing their math and aren't out there every day

We want the DNR to do more and more with less and less and no matter what, people aren't happy.

When the quota was announced last year Payer and Merriam were very happy to announce that the numbers wouldn't change and that you could catch a limit of small eaters or some big pigs. And you know what, it's true. I've gotten a few limits out there this year. Yes, it's tough now with the shrunken slot, but I'll say it again even though we're beating the horse to death, where else can you go to catch those large fish?

If you want a meal of fish, the supermarket is open, as are 4,000 other walleye lakes in the state.

What about all the floaters? Well, it's a sad part of the equation. We get to catch some big fish and some will not make it. Do we hate to waste them? Absolutely, but if we were to harvest a few, who gets to keep what? I'm not sure there would be a fair way to go about it.

Man, this forum is great. So many issues, so many viewpoints. I'm not saying I'm right on any of my takes, but to me, I couldn't be happier with my fishing on Mille Lacs.

[eyebjim]

I agree. Lets not keep bashing the DNR. They do the best they can. From the fishing I have expirienced on Mille Lacs this year and last I can say their doing a pretty darn good job. My only fear is that with all of these big fish in the lake there could be a baitfish problem. Lets face it this is truely a world class walleye lake.

[AWH]

You'd think that when you have a fishery like Mille Lacs that produces for ALL species year after year like it does, that people would realize that the DNR is capable of making good decisions that are the best for our resources. Mille Lacs and thousands of other lakes in the state are proof of this. I think it's time that we realize this and let them do the job they're paid to do.

Another thing that we need to realize is that as our population grows, our lakes will continue to see more and more pressure. That along with technology is going to put more potential threats on our resources. As a result, we will NEED to have more regulations and restrictions put in place if we are going to continue to enjoy the great fishing that we have in this state. We may not always like those changes. But it's better than the alternative.

Aaron

[dolsmi]

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Lets not keep bashing the DNR. They do the best they can. Lets face it this is truely a world class walleye lake.

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I am a huge fan or the DNR, I believe the CO's should be out there in full force, but let's not snap our arm patting them on the back, when we really don't know exactly if everything they are doing is "the best they can".

Don't get tunnel vision with how everything is, and "look outside the box". There might be an better, improved, new way of managing that is being over-looked.

This is a world class walleye lake, but maybe this lake could even be better.

It's hard to look at a 29" walleye and not think something is wrong with it when it is only 5-6 lbs. It should be pushing 10 lbs.

Times change, laws change, populations change, fishing changes, etc...

It's hard to believe that management styles shouldnt' change.

Not say the current DNR/Treaty management styles are perfect or bad, because they are somewhere in between, but maybe the DNR/Treaty management team as a whole should look at possible "news ways" to manage.

Just my input from an arm-chair QB with experience in corporate management styles, R & D outside of the DNR world. Always looking for ways to improve.

[eyebjim]

I would pretty much agree with you that the DNR is somewhere between good and bad with managing the lake. I agree there are possible better ideas that will likely not be tried. The problem is we are stuck with a court descision that dictates how to manage for the most part. I'm sure the DNR doesn't want to spend all their money in court for every greip about every new good idea they want to implement. Any major stocking to account for weight taken or other major change would likely result in major consequenses(think forage). The grass may always be greener but its pretty green at mille lacs. Hopefully the forage base will adjust to the ever increasing number of large fish in the lake. So far So good. I just dont like to pile on the DNR. I'm not sure what you mean about 29 inch fish weighing 5-6 lbs. Although I have not cought a 29 this year I have cought a lot over 25 and several 27" and all were fat. Are you sure you have not just cought fish spawned out and week from the spawn. Some spawn later than the pack. I have cought big fish that were very skinnny in the midst of catching other same length fish that were fat in years past. I have not cought one fish this year on Mille Lacs that was skinny.

Jim

[jnorm1984]

Replying to tight line on the 1st page: The DNR manages this fishery for poundage for biological reasons... A little fun fact- Mille Lacs lake has more natural walleye reproduction, than the DNR stocks in the entire state of Minnesota. The only logical way to mange this fishery is by numbers and pounds to attempt to reduce competion amoung the population. The biology is there and being monitored by the DNR heavily, but the only way to manage is by restriction. I think they are doing a darn good job, Mille Lacs is a great fishery now, and you can blame that on the DNR. The walleye population will crash in time, and the fishing will be poor again, but not due to any management flaws, this is how population curves go- it has been proven time and time again....But for now this management srategy is producing 23+ inch fish consistently,so we should probably stick with it.

[ikatcher]

dolsmi, those longer fish that are on the light side now will be pigs this fall, the forage is kicking in right now and thats why fishing has cooled a bit. they will be putting on the feedbag till freeze up. skinny fish this time of yr is common on most lakes, catch them in october and you would be amazed they even could get one more minnow on their bellies.