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art321

2 stroke synthetic

23 posts in this topic

I know this had been run on the board before. I did a search but didn't come up with much. I've heard good things about the synthetic 2 stroke engine oil and want to try it. I've got an '88 Mercury 115. What did you guys say you use, Amsoil Saber? What would be the best? Thanks.

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i hav 04 115 merc i run synthetic merc two stroke oil it seems two burn real clean !

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Where do you get the stuff? I was at Cabelas today and they didn't have much.

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boat dealer

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art321:

I use Amsoil Saber in my 15hp Johnson two stroke. It seems to be a good oil. The reason I started using it is because synthetic remains on internal engine parts longer and there is less wear at startup. I also like that there is less smoke because I am using half the oil (my engine is 50:1, but with Saber it uses 100:1 premix). It's also putting that much less oil in my favorite lakes. Having less smoke is nice when trolling because I don't like the smell of oil.

I've been using it for 3 years. I mail ordered it from Amsoil.

Assuming it's doing what it should be doing for lubrication, then I consider it a good product. I will continue to use it.

Because you use half the oil, it is price competitive with conventional oil.

I don't know what the issues are for larger engines like yours. Before I selected a synthetic I called Amsoil and asked them which of their products they recommend. You should do the same, just to be sure.

I assume that your motor mixes the oil in automatically. I'm not sure how that would work with Saber because the mix ratio is different.

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Actually I have to premix. I was up at the Rogers strip this morning hoping to get some. The Link dealer said that I shouldn't run Amsoil or any synthetic for that matter as my engine is older and will develop leaks. They don't sell oil so I went down the road to Crystal-Pierz Marine. Their guy couldn't tell me a thing so I ended up buying their synthetic Mercury 2 stroke oil, Premium Plus, which is TC-W3 certified. I too want to cut down on the smoke and put less oil into the lake so would like to try the stuff. Any others out there use it on older, larger engines? Mine is a 1988. If I use this synthetic can I cut back on the mix ratio from 50:1 to even 100:1 as the Amsoil states? Or somewhere in between? Keep in mind this is not Amsoil.

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I've been running Amsoil HP Injecter premixed 50:1 in my 1980 60hp Johnson this summer. So far, so good.

HP Injecter is available at Fleet Farm so its conveniently available.

To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't lean the mixture out on the oil you have unless it says so on the label. Even with Amsoil, some of their synthetics aren't supposed to by mixed leaner than 50:1. I know HP Injecter is 50:1. Just because its synthetic, I wouldn't automatically assume you can lean it out and be OK.

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I have been using Amsoil 2 cycle in my 83 Yamaha 25 for years but,I've recently used up the last bottle of the old formulation.I have now purchased a bottle of Amsoil Sabre and am wondering if I can still run it at 100 to 1? confused.gif

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Quote:

Actually I have to premix. I was up at the Rogers strip this morning hoping to get some. The Link dealer said that I shouldn't run Amsoil or any synthetic for that matter as my engine is older and will develop leaks. They don't sell oil so I went down the road to Crystal-Pierz Marine. Their guy couldn't tell me a thing so I ended up buying their synthetic Mercury 2 stroke oil, Premium Plus, which is TC-W3 certified. I too want to cut down on the smoke and put less oil into the lake so would like to try the stuff. Any others out there use it on older, larger engines? Mine is a 1988. If I use this synthetic can I cut back on the mix ratio from 50:1 to even 100:1 as the Amsoil states? Or somewhere in between? Keep in mind this is not Amsoil.


I can't believe he (the dealer) said that,,, I wonder where it would start leaking from????

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Quote:

I have now purchased a bottle of Amsoil Sabre and am wondering if I can still run it at 100 to 1?
confused.gif


I believe the Amsoil Sabre can be mixed 100:1. Double check the bottle before you do but I believe that is one of the Amsoil oils that can be mixed 100:1.

Quote:

I can't believe he (the dealer) said that,,, I wonder where it would start leaking from????


Thats what I was thinking as well. Hard to find someone with good product knowledge these days. confused.gif

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That's why I prefer to post questions on this board. There is a lot more practical experience here than from some sales guy that was told to read his product marketing brochure and then push it. The guy at Link that told me not to put synthetic in was the owner, I believe. The guy at Crystal-Pierz was the summer help, I believe.

So Hanson and others, do you find that using the synthetic has cut down on the smoke and pollution on your motor?

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I have older motors and always use the cheapest oil Fleet Farm has that is TC-W3 certified. I think there is little difference between oils that are TC-W3 certified but have no facts to back this up. If I had an expensive motor I might buy a brand name oil just to be safe but probably not.

I do read with interest possibly having less polution if you mix 100:1. Does anybody have any facts that prove mixing 100:1 will cause less polution and if so how much less?

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Wayne123:

It's a question of volume. You use half the oil to go the same distance. There is a very visible and significant difference in the amount of smoke and oil emitted by my 15 horse engine when using synthetic.

Your case for the cheaper oil is a good one. Most people don't use their engines enough to wear them out due to internal wear. I plan to have mine a while and I do run it frequently during open water season, but it will sit for a week between uses so I want the extra lubrication at startup. There are plenty of engines from the 1970s and 1980s around here that are still running on conventional oil, so there must not be much of an advantage to using synthetic.

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Quote:

So Hanson and others, do you find that using the synthetic has cut down on the smoke and pollution on your motor?


Smoke? Big time difference!

Synthetic oil hasn't been something I've jumped on quickly, in fact, I've been rather hesitant over the years.

It started with my Arctic Cat ZR600 EFI. Bought it new in 2002 and was required to run Cat synthetic APV oil. After that, I switched over to synthetic in my older EXT. So far, so good on both snowmobiles.

I've been using Mobil 1 synthetic in my GMC Sierra now for about just as long.

Next step was the ice auger. This is where I really became a believer in Amsoil. Lots of folks online had been using it with rave reviews. I was skeptical but decided to try it. Ran my auger all last winter premixing Amsoil Saber at 100:1 and it cut down the exhaust smoke to almost nothing. The auger also starts now in 2-3 pulls rather than 4-5. I'd recommend this stuff to anyone that needs premixed fuel for their small engines.

This year, it was my boat which made the switch. The boat is relatively new to me and I did have it running on Lubrimatic TC-W3. It ran fine but there was definitely a noticeable cloud of exhaust on start up. Since the beginning of the year, I've been premixing Amsoil HP Injector at 50:1. The exhaust cloud at startup has definitely diminished. The motor starts great and runs smooth. So far, I haven't had any issues switching an older motor over to synthetic. If I wasn't confident that it would work well, I wouldn't have done it. Money doesn't grow on trees and the last thing I want to do is repair a blown up motor resulting from my choice of oil.

I'm no expert on these oils by any means, but these are some observations I've made from my personal use.

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I've used synthetic (Amsoil) oil in my boat motors and snowmobiles for several years. I have used Sabre (pre-mix) in other small two stroke engines and I love it.

For outboards: Hardly any smoke in my Mercury 175 efi, no obvious carbon deposits (I just changed 3 year old spark plugs...still like new) and the motors just run sweet on Amsoil Injector HP. I burn several gallons of Amsoil per year.

Amsoil lower unit lube works very well too.

For brand new outboards (or re-built) I would not use synthetic oil right away. It's usually recommended to break the motors in on conventional oil for some time before the switch to synthetic.

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I have been using Amsoil in my cars, boat motors, 4wheeler, and sleds for about 5 years. Huge difference, with the 2-strokers. As also said in this post, the lower unit lube is great too.

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Some technical clarification.

First of all, I am an AMSOIL dealer, and sponsor on Fishing Minnesota (Equipment/Expert forum).

For premix outboards you have a couple of choices with AMSOIL. Saber Outboard is a premix only for outboards, use it as lean as 100-1. (NOTE: There are 2 Saber oils - Saber Outboard for your water cooled outboards; Saber Professional for your AIR cooled premix 2-cycle such as your Auger, string cutter, etc.)

The Second AMSOIL choice for water cooled outboards is the HP Injector. It is designed to be best in oil injected engines, but works well as a 50-1 premix also.

My preference would be the Saber - with a leaner mix ratio you will get better performance (less octane dislution).

Pollution? AMSOIL will reduce emissions in the water over 65% as compared to petroleum based fluids.

Cheap oils (several posts in this thread talked about)? In addition to reducing emissions, AMSOIL burns away clean reducing and eliminating carbon buildup. Why? Because it is not made from crude oil, it is designed, a diester synthetic, made from agricultural by-products to do a better job. Ask any of the many people here using the Saber Professional in their augers last winter, at least one comment was in this thread.

Where to buy? Yes there are some stores that sell it, but I would appreciate the opportunity to help you. E-mail me privately for purchasing info.

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So Oilman,

Are you telling me it would be OK to use Amsoil Saber at up to 100:1 premix in my older (1988) Mercury 115? Why would the guy at Link Marine tell me not too? I just want to be clear as I was the original poster and have gotten good answers here. The ones I was hoping for. But the 2 marine dealers I spoke to didn't reccommend it.

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Yes, the Saber Outboard can be used as lean as 100-1 in any outboard premix engine (except very old and antiques), that is back to about 1960 model engines. In antique outboards you will have to use it richer, perhaps even 33-1 (some of the antiques originally called for 16-1 mix ratios on petroleum oil).

AMSOIL first came out with the 100-1 mix in 1973, so 1988 is no problem.

You can use it richer if you aren't confortable with the lean mix - start with 50-1, it will run nearly smokeless even at the base 50-1 ratio; then as you feel confortable after a few tanks, lean it a little at at time, say 60-1 then 70-1 until you know it will work in your motor leaner.

In the augers with Saber Professional (for air cooled) even with OEM recommendations as rich as 25-1 and 33-1 most are using the AMSOIL at 80-1 or 100-1 with excellent results.

Why do dealers say no? Dealers almost always want to sell you their own brand of oil, they make more money on it. Also, they are 'ostriches,' that is, they don't want to know about anyone else's aftermarket products that might be used in their brand of machine and seem to go out of their way to know nothing about anything except their own brand, so their automatic answer is "Their own brand of oil is the only thing they recommend."

The AMSOIL is full synthetic, designed to be stronger and lubricate better while at the same time burn away clean leaving no ash or carbon behind. It is designed to be able to be used leaner.

If you would like the full data sheet and other info (as pdf files) e-mail me privately and I will return them to you.

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Oilman, this is a bit off track but could you tell me which Amsoil motor oil is Group III and Group IV. I use to be a M1 user but since they gave in, changed their formula to group III, I would rather pay for a Group IV TRUE synthetic. Thanks

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Oilman,

What would you recommend I run in my 05 Yamaha 250 HPDI??

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AMSOIL Motor Oils base --

Most of AMSOIL's Motor Oils are Group 4, PAO base stock, all the 'traditional' line 0W-20 ASM, 5W-30 ASL, 10W-30 ATM, 10W-40 AMO, 20W-50 ARO, 15W-40 AME; all the high performance line 0W-30 TSO, 20W-50 TRO, 5W-30 diesel HDD; all the speciality 4-stroke motor oils 0W-40 AFF ATV & Snowmobile, 10W-30 WCT & 10W-40 WCF Marine FC-W, 10W-40 MCF & 20W-50 MCV Motorcycle, 10W-40 ASO Scooter, 5W-40 AFL European, Sae 30/10W-30 Small engine, Sae 60 Racing, 5W-40 DEO Ultra-Low Emission Diesel.

The XL Series are group 3. The XL is AMSOIL's bottom line of motor oils, rated 6-month/7500 mile service intervals.

By-the-way, the 2-stroke oils are group 5 Diesther base stock.

Castrol synthetics are all group 3, as many of the others from the petroleum oil companies. The last info I had though was that Mobil-1 was group 4 PAO base.

If you would like a copy of the independent test lab comparison data e-mail me privately and I will return it to you as a pdf file, or mail a paper copy.

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Hi Matt,

Your Yamaha is 2-stroke with oil injection (I don't try to keep up with all the different model names)?

Use AMSOIL HP Injector, product code HPI, available in quarts, gallons, 16 gal keg, 30 & 55 gal drums.

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